I guess they have no power plants near cities where you live. Around here that is where all the powers plants are because they use the most power. The only ones not near cities are the nuclear ones and they are closing down due to age. If the demand for electricity rises much more in New England they will not be able to supply it. The natural gas lines are maxed out. Several companies have moratoriums on new services and people are out there protesting any expansion of the pipelines.
Tesla semi
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I guess they have no power plants near cities where you live. Around here that is where all the powers plants are because they use the most power. The only ones not near cities are the nuclear ones and they are closing down due to age. If the demand for electricity rises much more in New England they will not be able to supply it. The natural gas lines are maxed out. Several companies have moratoriums on new services and people are out there protesting any expansion of the pipelines.
vvanders
Platinum Member
Totally agreed that $60k is unreasonable, thankfully battery tech is still pretty new. Prices have been and are continuing to drop significantly.
Even at your prices at 325wH/mi still comes out at 46mpg equivalent which is pretty darn good for such a large car.
Even at your prices at 325wH/mi still comes out at 46mpg equivalent which is pretty darn good for such a large car.
Gale Hawkins
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Can Hydrogen Injection save the diesel engine? | Writing about cars
My son has just started diesel college and was told Hydrogen was the next step for diesel engines. He said one gallon of distilled water would make a lot of hydrogen today. Not sure what he was talking about however.
My son has just started diesel college and was told Hydrogen was the next step for diesel engines. He said one gallon of distilled water would make a lot of hydrogen today. Not sure what he was talking about however.
Redneck in training
Elite Member
So I had to go to Jackson Hole Wyoming and Yellowstone this summer and this sight caught my attention. Electric cars, mostly from California, having to either be rescued or provide their own energy for charging up their car. The hotels in Jackson had signs that said they have no facilities to charge EV and they should not take them to Yellowstone because they too do not have charging facilities. That did not stop people, they just had a Honda generator and 5 gallons of gas that they would chain to their rim and charge their cars with. It was the funniest thing I ever saw, and carrying around a jug of gas kinda defeats the purpose of EV. But it shows just how much infrastructure would be needed for EV to be viable on a large scale. I do not think the park service in Yellowstone would build out huge parking lots with charging stations at each spot.
Now Toyota has discovered the EV is great in concept, but their success would be dependent upon power companies producing cheap power, distribution companies building out the grid, and local business like hotels providing charging stations for their clients, not to mention cities proving stations on street sides. It would be a massive investment on a lot of levels. The thing that makes the internal combustion engine so workable is the ability to have a centrally located gas stations that can serve thousands of people fast and efficiently with a fuel source. EV would go away from a central location to individual stations. Toyota knows the best approach is to be able to stick with a central location distribution system, where a hydrogen tank could be located next to gas and diesel. No need to reinvent the wheel, just refine it...don't forget Toyota started the hybrid thing with the Prius. If the EV was workable, Toyota would have already been on it.
The EV is great if you don't ever leave a radius of your house where you know 100% you could recharge every night. Hydrogen fuel cells make the most sense, no grid updates and the range is limited by the size of the tank. Plus it would be far cheaper to just add a hydrogen tank to a gas station than add charging stations everywhere. Musk is doing good things to further technology, but I don't see EV as the future of transportation.
99% of our driving is in radius of the ecar. I figured that if we rent a car and drive for vacation we will still end up few thousand dollars ahead per ear.
houstonscott
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Excuses.
Citydude
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Palm trees in Jackson?
So I had to go to Jackson Hole Wyoming and Yellowstone this summer and this sight caught my attention. Electric cars, mostly from California, having to either be rescued or provide their own energy for charging up their car. The hotels in Jackson had signs that said they have no facilities to charge EV and they should not take them to Yellowstone because they too do not have charging facilities. That did not stop people, they just had a Honda generator and 5 gallons of gas that they would chain to their rim and charge their cars with. It was the funniest thing I ever saw, and carrying around a jug of gas kinda defeats the purpose of EV. But it shows just how much infrastructure would be needed for EV to be viable on a large scale. I do not think the park service in Yellowstone would build out huge parking lots with charging stations at each spot.
Now Toyota has discovered the EV is great in concept, but their success would be dependent upon power companies producing cheap power, distribution companies building out the grid, and local business like hotels providing charging stations for their clients, not to mention cities proving stations on street sides. It would be a massive investment on a lot of levels. The thing that makes the internal combustion engine so workable is the ability to have a centrally located gas stations that can serve thousands of people fast and efficiently with a fuel source. EV would go away from a central location to individual stations. Toyota knows the best approach is to be able to stick with a central location distribution system, where a hydrogen tank could be located next to gas and diesel. No need to reinvent the wheel, just refine it...don't forget Toyota started the hybrid thing with the Prius. If the EV was workable, Toyota would have already been on it.
The EV is great if you don't ever leave a radius of your house where you know 100% you could recharge every night. Hydrogen fuel cells make the most sense, no grid updates and the range is limited by the size of the tank. Plus it would be far cheaper to just add a hydrogen tank to a gas station than add charging stations everywhere. Musk is doing good things to further technology, but I don't see EV as the future of transportation.
Snobdds
Super Member
The sight of a generator charging a car, yes.
I thought the sight of a picture of a Texas plate and the next of plam trees was pretty obvious it was poached off the web. Unless there are palm trees in Texas too?
The picture spoke of the situation, not exactly the situation. You got the point.
toppop52
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I’m in favor of any technology that benefits the average person. So I’m going to ask a few questions without malice of forethought, just hoping to find out.
Where do we stand in carbon footprint for producing, charging and maintaining electric cars, solar panels, wind energy, wave energy, etc... I mean from the cost to find and recover the natural resources, transportation, manufacture, sales, government subsidies paid for by the taxpayers, installation of support systems such as recharge stations, etc... Hiw much pollution is generated in the lifetime of an electric vehicle vs gasoline, same for KW produced by solar vs natural gas?
Where do we stand in carbon footprint for producing, charging and maintaining electric cars, solar panels, wind energy, wave energy, etc... I mean from the cost to find and recover the natural resources, transportation, manufacture, sales, government subsidies paid for by the taxpayers, installation of support systems such as recharge stations, etc... Hiw much pollution is generated in the lifetime of an electric vehicle vs gasoline, same for KW produced by solar vs natural gas?
Citydude
Super Member
Oh. I was joking. You get the point?
Snobdds
Super Member
I was clarifying your point, if that was your point?
Redneck in training
Elite Member
About 5 to 1. ICE car produces (all included) about five times more polution per life of the car than ecar. Ecars are quiet, no more rumbling exhausts.
Snobdds
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Where does the coal used to produce the Ecar's energy factor in? Or do we only take into the account the end product pollution?
houstonscott
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Study: Electric Vehicles Pollute More Than Gas-powered Cars
I think you are mixed up. Many credible studies find the reverse.
wagne223
Platinum Member
I am not buying that claim.
It is claims like this that cause the wall between ecar proponents and the status quo to get larger and stronger.
Mining all those precious metals for batteries and windings produces a lot of carbon emissions.
wagne223
Platinum Member
I brought up this same question many posts ago. I never received a direct answer.
Probably because no one has actually done a study. Probably because they don't want the result known.
Like I said before, I'm all for people driving ecars. I just don't like the fact many of them feel they are "zero emission"
Gale Hawkins
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I would like a new car with the Active Steering and Braking features but in an Ford Escape, Subaru Forester, etc we are talking around $35K. When I can continue to buy quality used vehicles in the $5K-$6K range that are good for another 10 years it is hard to justify spending so much just to get the new technology that is so cool.
Now if a self driving car would help me to keep my driver license my mind would be subject to changing.
From what I read the self driving semi trucks for like from warehouse to warehouse sooner than later. There is one ship in Europe that makes the same 28 mile trip from the mines to the sea port I think that is totally unmanned. We have a new (they tore the old one down) McDonald's opening next week where you can place your order and pay for your meal without trying to get a human get your order correct.
toppop52
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Without a multi source backup, 5-1 seems outlandish.
OP
daugen
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Paris Says Au Revoir to Gas and Diesel Cars by 2 | Automobile Magazine
the French never were very sensible. Well, one will have to buy their Chiron in another city I suppose
I think they are going to blame degradation of the Mona Lisa on air pollution...and maybe they are right.
I bet the gas station owners in Paris are thrilled about this. Talk about reinventing your business, though there will always be
repair work.
| Automobile Magazinethe French never were very sensible. Well, one will have to buy their Chiron in another city I suppose
I think they are going to blame degradation of the Mona Lisa on air pollution...and maybe they are right.
I bet the gas station owners in Paris are thrilled about this. Talk about reinventing your business, though there will always be
repair work.
Egon
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OP
daugen
Epic Contributor
it is hard to justify spending so much just to get the new technology that is so cool
I agree. Luckily some of the most important stuff is coming to $25k cars since they can't get the top safety rating without it.
My Subaru Outback with its cameras and radars really helps me on long drives, mostly by giving my right leg a break for extended periods. Have bad arthritis and get cramps and
having the car give my limbs a break is really helpful. But it doesn't give my mind a break, nor until they advance the science will I want it to. Luckily the 10-4 hand position, which often becomes 9 and 3 I think depending upon where you rest your hands, is the most comfortable for me.
a little wander here:
My last career was as a CFP. I spent almost ten years doing kitchen table financial planning with families, helping them with their finances, and
evaluating whether their current broker had them in decent investments, the right risk profile. And helping them set priorities on how they spent their money if they wanted to be
successful. There's a lot of merit to what Gale is saying here. If you have a lot of other line items in your budget that are crushing you, or not allowing needed saving,
auto expense really is an area you can cut back on.
The problem is many guys after working hard for 30 years have wanted to reward themselves with a nice new truck.
And gosh, no money down.
And then the family has a ten thousand dollar annual expense for one vehicle, after you add in more expensive car insurance.
Now if you are working and earning a living with that ten thousand dollar a year asset, it can make a lot of sense.
But otherwise, a used midsize sedan today, which are going out of style to the SUV's for sure, can be a super deal for not much money, and
maybe just maybe you can pay cash and not have any payments at all. Remember when we saved up for cars?...
And since cars are more reliable now, with a little mechanical know how Gale can expect to get 200k out of most modern cars.
Cost per mile of driving usually drops greatly.
So you have more money to spend on other things. Like a second tractor. :thumbsup:
back to regular programming.
btw I get around my farm mostly on an electric golf cart. Quiet, remarkable acceleration, and super reliable. Two zerks to grease.
Club Car, nice product, bought used for half price. Had it converted to four person cart. No reason it won't be running fifty years from now, though
I assume the batteries getting dropped in would change quite a bit every ten years.
Maybe we'll have hydrogen golf carts in fifty years. Maybe they fly/levitate by then. I've been reading Heinlein and Bradbury since the Sixties and
it is fun seeing things you read about so long ago coming true today. So an electric truck is really easy for me to imagine.
I agree. Luckily some of the most important stuff is coming to $25k cars since they can't get the top safety rating without it.
My Subaru Outback with its cameras and radars really helps me on long drives, mostly by giving my right leg a break for extended periods. Have bad arthritis and get cramps and
having the car give my limbs a break is really helpful. But it doesn't give my mind a break, nor until they advance the science will I want it to. Luckily the 10-4 hand position, which often becomes 9 and 3 I think depending upon where you rest your hands, is the most comfortable for me.
a little wander here:
My last career was as a CFP. I spent almost ten years doing kitchen table financial planning with families, helping them with their finances, and
evaluating whether their current broker had them in decent investments, the right risk profile. And helping them set priorities on how they spent their money if they wanted to be
successful. There's a lot of merit to what Gale is saying here. If you have a lot of other line items in your budget that are crushing you, or not allowing needed saving,
auto expense really is an area you can cut back on.
The problem is many guys after working hard for 30 years have wanted to reward themselves with a nice new truck.
And gosh, no money down.
And then the family has a ten thousand dollar annual expense for one vehicle, after you add in more expensive car insurance.
Now if you are working and earning a living with that ten thousand dollar a year asset, it can make a lot of sense.
But otherwise, a used midsize sedan today, which are going out of style to the SUV's for sure, can be a super deal for not much money, and
maybe just maybe you can pay cash and not have any payments at all. Remember when we saved up for cars?...
And since cars are more reliable now, with a little mechanical know how Gale can expect to get 200k out of most modern cars.
Cost per mile of driving usually drops greatly.
So you have more money to spend on other things. Like a second tractor. :thumbsup:
back to regular programming.
btw I get around my farm mostly on an electric golf cart. Quiet, remarkable acceleration, and super reliable. Two zerks to grease.
Club Car, nice product, bought used for half price. Had it converted to four person cart. No reason it won't be running fifty years from now, though
I assume the batteries getting dropped in would change quite a bit every ten years.
Maybe we'll have hydrogen golf carts in fifty years. Maybe they fly/levitate by then.
I've been reading Heinlein and Bradbury since the Sixties and it is fun seeing things you read about so long ago coming true today. So an electric truck is really easy for me to imagine.
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