Tesla semi

[houstonscott]

VCR’s were new tech. Of course prices were high when the fad was new . Any tech has a advancement curve that is initially rapid with the improvement proportional to the extra cost and engineering. As the tech matures there are some gains however the cost is very high for a small unit of gain. Engineering becomes complex and the tech complicated . For instance there are no new significant gains left to improve the lbs of fuel per HP per hour for a Diesel engine . Some diesels from the late 1950’s exceed the efficiency of some diesels in the same HP range today. Electric motors , no different . Gasoline and diesel still have the same btu’s per pound. Elements such as Lithium still have the same number of electrons per pound .

Now you've confused them. Both technologies are mature. LI batteries have been flying in military spacecraft since the early 1980's, those might have exceeded in performance to what you can get in a car. That's a long time ago. Not much has really changed. There are limits in physics and they are well understood.

 

[Sodo]

There are limits in physics and they are well understood.

When you hear the phrase "Everything that can be invented has been invented" it's attributed to Charles Duell, commissioner of the United States Patent and Trademark Office from 1898 to 1901.

But he didn't say that. In 1899, while Duell was in office, a joke story in Punch magazine (a comedy magazine) offered a look at the "coming century." A 'genius' asks "isn't there a clerk who can examine patents?" A boy replies "Quite unnecessary, Sir. Everything that can be invented has been invented." This comic exchange was somehow attributed to Charles Duell and it's referenced in hundreds of books since.

Strange how apt this situation is in 2017, 118 years later. A joke about short-sightedness becomes "truth".

Here's an actual quote from Mr. Duell, where it's pretty apparent he did not suffer from short-sightedness, and was well suited for the task of patent office commissioner.

In my opinion, all previous advances in the various lines of invention will appear totally insignificant when compared with those which the present century will witness. I almost wish that I might live my life over again to see the wonders which are at the threshold. -Charles Duell


Not accusing HS of shortsightedness; actually the opposite. To encourage short-sightedness (of TBN members) may be long-sightedness. Looking forward electric will compete with Petrol, and the inflated price ----- dropping. When its brutally obvious that the consumer clearly saves money, and less goes to the investment sectors.

Petroleum won't go away for a long time, but as electric vehicles rise in popularity, the price of petroleum will drop. For two reasons.
1) The petroleum producers will attempt to slow the shift to electric vehicle advantage by making petroleum more affordable (again). Remember $.25 per gallon? There's a LOT of leeway there..... not to 25c of course but there's lots of profit that can be slashed.
2) The resultant oil surplus will reduce the price. Many truckers, will be able to run their diesel trucks out on lower cost fuel. It will take YEARS. But the sooner electric comes on-board, the sooner the price will drop.

Basically the consumer has nothing but benefits ahead whenever their money is in their pockets, and withheld from top-performing investment sectors. This is the "REAL free market" and its why competition benefits the consumer. And why a monopoly (the petroleum producers) are marketing AGAINST electric so "bigly". Pay attention - the energy investment sector is not rallying against electric "by the goodness of their hearts".

 

[MossRoad]

Many truckers, will be able to run their diesel trucks out on lower cost fuel. It will take YEARS. ...

There won't be any truckers as the advances in automation are already leading to driverless trucks. Diesel or electric, they'll be unemployed sooner than later.

 

[CincyFlyer]

Oil and gas gets 15.5 billion/year subsidy in direct payment or tax breaks from federal goevernment and 3 billion from the states. Needles to say that it is not only O&G that gets those. If you add cost of defending of shipping routes the cost jumps to about estimated 52 billion/year.

Where does that federal government get "its" money? Same with the state. Most of it comes from its people, or the corporations run by its people.

 

[CincyFlyer]

There won't be any truckers as the advances in automation are already leading to driverless trucks. Diesel or electric, they'll be unemployed sooner than later.

Probably we'll still have local delivery by human, at least in my lifetime (unless drones get a lot larger). Still, one would think that anyone whose job can be automated would be seeing what else they can do, perhaps something less amenable to automation.

 

[Sodo]

There won't be any truckers as the advances in automation are already leading to driverless trucks. Diesel or electric, they'll be unemployed sooner than later.

Not anytime soon. YEARS. With lower fuel prices owner/operators will make some BIG dough in the meantime, and would be wise to save profits.
Changes to the HUGE freight infrastructure won't change fast. When it becomes viable, the large fleets buying new trucks will see the numbers (in using electricity) and will embrace driverless for sure too. You'll know it when they do it. When it produces profits for the "transportation investment sector". Theres a theme going here.

Good fear though.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

When you hear the phrase "Everything that can be invented has been invented" it's attributed to Charles Duell, commissioner of the United States Patent and Trademark Office from 1898 to 1901.

But he didn't say that. In 1899, while Duell was in office, a joke story in Punch magazine (a comedy magazine) offered a look at the "coming century." A 'genius' asks "isn't there a clerk who can examine patents?" A boy replies "Quite unnecessary, Sir. Everything that can be invented has been invented." This comic exchange was somehow attributed to Charles Duell and it's referenced in hundreds of books since.

Strange how apt this situation is in 2017, 118 years later. A joke about short-sightedness becomes "truth".

Here's an actual quote from Mr. Duell, where it's pretty apparent he did not suffer from short-sightedness, and was well suited for the task of patent office commissioner.

In my opinion, all previous advances in the various lines of invention will appear totally insignificant when compared with those which the present century will witness. I almost wish that I might live my life over again to see the wonders which are at the threshold. -Charles Duell


Not accusing HS of shortsightedness; actually the opposite. To encourage short-sightedness (of TBN members) may be long-sightedness. Looking forward electric will compete with Petrol, and the inflated price ----- dropping. When its brutally obvious that the consumer clearly saves money, and less goes to the investment sectors.

Petroleum won't go away for a long time, but as electric vehicles rise in popularity, the price of petroleum will drop. For two reasons.
1) The petroleum producers will attempt to slow the shift to electric vehicle advantage by making petroleum more affordable (again). Remember $.25 per gallon? There's a LOT of leeway there..... not to 25c of course but there's lots of profit that can be slashed.
2) The resultant oil surplus will reduce the price. Many truckers, will be able to run their diesel trucks out on lower cost fuel. It will take YEARS. But the sooner electric comes on-board, the sooner the price will drop.

Basically the consumer has nothing but benefits ahead whenever their money is in their pockets, and withheld from top-performing investment sectors. This is the "REAL free market" and its why competition benefits the consumer. And why a monopoly (the petroleum producers) are marketing AGAINST electric so "bigly". Pay attention - the energy investment sector is not rallying against electric "by the goodness of their hearts".

Great info and thoughts. Science lags happen because of the lagging minds of men in my view. The "laws" of science are only valid until they are broken by the next generation of minds. The power of the computer processor comes to mind. The consumer will be the winner I agree. Buggy chassis makers have to morph or go out of business. Body by Fisher logo comes to my mind.

While Tesla may not be around long term in their current format they have been a change agent and seems to eyes looking to the heavens to deploy even newer technology.

 

[buickanddeere]

Now you've confused them. Both technologies are mature. LI batteries have been flying in military spacecraft since the early 1980's, those might have exceeded in performance to what you can get in a car. That's a long time ago. Not much has really changed. There are limits in physics and they are well understood.

Many of the liberal arts and uneducated fans of EV and renewable energy proponents endlessly yap off about “New more efficient and cheaper batteries and solar panels just around the corner in research right now.” Ain’t no such thing. Stuck with where we are with battery energy density and PV output .

 

[buickanddeere]

When you hear the phrase "Everything that can be invented has been invented" it's attributed to Charles Duell, commissioner of the United States Patent and Trademark Office from 1898 to 1901.

But he didn't say that. In 1899, while Duell was in office, a joke story in Punch magazine (a comedy magazine) offered a look at the "coming century." A 'genius' asks "isn't there a clerk who can examine patents?" A boy replies "Quite unnecessary, Sir. Everything that can be invented has been invented." This comic exchange was somehow attributed to Charles Duell and it's referenced in hundreds of books since.

Strange how apt this situation is in 2017, 118 years later. A joke about short-sightedness becomes "truth".

Here's an actual quote from Mr. Duell, where it's pretty apparent he did not suffer from short-sightedness, and was well suited for the task of patent office commissioner.

In my opinion, all previous advances in the various lines of invention will appear totally insignificant when compared with those which the present century will witness. I almost wish that I might live my life over again to see the wonders which are at the threshold. -Charles Duell


Not accusing HS of shortsightedness; actually the opposite. To encourage short-sightedness (of TBN members) may be long-sightedness. Looking forward electric will compete with Petrol, and the inflated price ----- dropping. When its brutally obvious that the consumer clearly saves money, and less goes to the investment sectors.

Petroleum won't go away for a long time, but as electric vehicles rise in popularity, the price of petroleum will drop. For two reasons.
1) The petroleum producers will attempt to slow the shift to electric vehicle advantage by making petroleum more affordable (again). Remember $.25 per gallon? There's a LOT of leeway there..... not to 25c of course but there's lots of profit that can be slashed.
2) The resultant oil surplus will reduce the price. Many truckers, will be able to run their diesel trucks out on lower cost fuel. It will take YEARS. But the sooner electric comes on-board, the sooner the price will drop.

Basically the consumer has nothing but benefits ahead whenever their money is in their pockets, and withheld from top-performing investment sectors. This is the "REAL free market" and its why competition benefits the consumer. And why a monopoly (the petroleum producers) are marketing AGAINST electric so "bigly". Pay attention - the energy investment sector is not rallying against electric "by the goodness of their hearts".

Unless the Almighty adds some new elements to the periodic table, there is no way to even approach the energy density of diesel/gasoline with batteries . You can’t cheat the laws of physics no matter how noble your goal is or how much you want it .

 

[buickanddeere]

Where does that federal government get "its" money? Same with the state. Most of it comes from its people, or the corporations run by its people.

The greenies are quick to imagine all manner of “subsidies “ even though cash does not change hands . The long list of “costs” and the financial value is ludicrous. The greenies get away with it as most people hate oil companies and hope it is true in order to vilify the industry .
How much does the fosssil industry pay in fees, royalties , taxes and licenses into state/province and federal coffers ? How much income tax is paid on wages ? The typical greenie is a socialist and would be disappointed to watch finding disappear from their pet causes. IMF’s imagined $34-billion: Silly stats are behind claims that Canada subsidizes oil industry | Financial Post

 

[houstonscott]

When you hear the phrase "Everything that can be invented has been invented" it's attributed to Charles Duell, commissioner of the United States Patent and Trademark Office from 1898 to 1901. But he didn't say that. In 1899, while Duell was in office, a joke story in Punch magazine (a comedy magazine) offered a look at the "coming century." A 'genius' asks "isn't there a clerk who can examine patents?" A boy replies "Quite unnecessary, Sir. Everything that can be invented has been invented." This comic exchange was somehow attributed to Charles Duell and it's referenced in hundreds of books since. Strange how apt this situation is in 2017, 118 years later. A joke about short-sightedness becomes "truth". Here's an actual quote from Mr. Duell, where it's pretty apparent he did not suffer from short-sightedness, and was well suited for the task of patent office commissioner. In my opinion, all previous advances in the various lines of invention will appear totally insignificant when compared with those which the present century will witness. I almost wish that I might live my life over again to see the wonders which are at the threshold. -Charles Duell Not accusing HS of shortsightedness; actually the opposite. To encourage short-sightedness (of TBN members) may be long-sightedness. Looking forward electric will compete with Petrol, and the inflated price ----- dropping. When its brutally obvious that the consumer clearly saves money, and less goes to the investment sectors. Petroleum won't go away for a long time, but as electric vehicles rise in popularity, the price of petroleum will drop. For two reasons. 1) The petroleum producers will attempt to slow the shift to electric vehicle advantage by making petroleum more affordable (again). Remember $.25 per gallon? There's a LOT of leeway there..... not to 25c of course but there's lots of profit that can be slashed. 2) The resultant oil surplus will reduce the price. Many truckers, will be able to run their diesel trucks out on lower cost fuel. It will take YEARS. But the sooner electric comes on-board, the sooner the price will drop. Basically the consumer has nothing but benefits ahead whenever their money is in their pockets, and withheld from top-performing investment sectors. This is the "REAL free market" and its why competition benefits the consumer. And why a monopoly (the petroleum producers) are marketing AGAINST electric so "bigly". Pay attention - the energy investment sector is not rallying against electric "by the goodness of their hearts".

I think your under the impression if electric battery cars were cheaper they'd sell more. I think you are wrong, price isn't the issue at all...

 

[Sodo]

endlessly yap off

"Yap" is an effective one.

The greenies are quick to imagine ...... The greenies get away with .... vilify the (oil) industry....the typical greenie is a socialist.... their pet causes....

Need to discredit the writer cuz what was written, is sound. I'm not a greenie but I'll take the effort as a compliment.:thumbsup:
I do like clean water, clean air, beautiful country, it's what makes America great. That's not greenie, that's the old days.

IMFç—´ imagined $34-billion: Silly stats are behind claims that Canada subsidizes oil industry | Financial Post

I wonder if Financial Post has interests in protecting monopolies that perform well. Such as the Petroleum industry. Nothing wrong with industry - an industry provides a service. But a monopoly is able to flout the free market and rise prices artificially. This is a normal sequence when the industries get too big, and competition fades away (or is devoured).

This is where it's government's responsibility to act on the citizens behalf. It's not government's responsibility to prop up a failing business plan, it's governnment's responsibility to level the playing field. This is why the people VOTE for their representation (or they did in the past). And why the industry has to avoid the appearance of collusion, by paying "news agencies" to educate the people,,,,, to VOTE for the politicians who will act in industry's favor. People comply, and the industry takes more of the citizens money. It's a disappointing turn of events for the USA.

 

[houstonscott]

"Yap" is an effective one. Need to discredit the writer cuz what was written, is sound. I'm not a greenie but I'll take the effort as a compliment.:thumbsup: I do like clean water, clean air, beautiful country, it's what makes America great. That's not greenie, that's the old days. I wonder if Financial Post has interests in protecting monopolies that perform well. Such as the Petroleum industry. Nothing wrong with industry - an industry provides a service. But a monopoly is able to flout the free market and rise prices artificially. This is a normal sequence when the industries get too big, and competition fades away (or is devoured). This is where it's government's responsibility to act on the citizens behalf. It's not government's responsibility to prop up a failing business plan, it's governnment's responsibility to level the playing field. This is why the people VOTE for their representation (or they did in the past). And why the industry has to avoid the appearance of collusion, by paying "news agencies" to educate the people,,,,, to VOTE for the politicians who will act in industry's favor. People comply, and the industry takes more of the citizens money. It's a disappointing turn of events for the USA.

frankly I'll side with industry, over government. I like my gas, my computer, my phone, my pad. Can you imagine government involved in those things how they might look or work. You'ed be in line like in communist Russia for a chicken.

 

[Sodo]

frankly I'll side with industry, over government. I like my gas, my computer, my phone, my pad. Can you imagine government involved in those things how they might look or work. You'ed be in line like in communist Russia for a chicken.

Industry far outperforms government, we all know that, because there's the profit motive and ....drumroll....competition.. But when industry controls the market, where it's no longer a "free market" (price fixing) we need the help pf government. That is one of the basic tenets of government in a free society.

Russia jokes are all upside-down these days aren't they? Like Ronald Reagan (turning over in his grave).

 

[vvanders]

Many of the liberal arts and uneducated fans of EV and renewable energy proponents endlessly yap off about 哲ew more efficient and cheaper batteries and solar panels just around the corner in research right now. Ain稚 no such thing. Stuck with where we are with battery energy density and PV output .

I've got a job title with senior engineer in it but I would never presume to think that one's education determines all that they are capable of understanding. Shoot, some of the best engineers I've worked with don't even have a college degree.

The thing about the law of physics is that they represent our best understanding of the world right now at this point in time. They've been broken many times in the past and we'll see them broken again in our lifetime. The core scientific ideal is to always be gaining a better understanding of the world.

Even staying within our known understanding of the periodic table Lithium-Air/Oxygen batteries have 2(!) orders of magnitude(that's 100x) better energy capacity than Li-Po. Lithium–air battery - Wikipedia They approach the same energy density of gasoline but don't have the downside of dumping half the energy as waste heat. Most of the things holding them back are material science in the anode/cathode.

Either way it's easy to naysay because it doesn't involve getting out there and actually doing anything. The companies that change the world have a tendency of proving naysayers wrong on a large scale. So I say bring it on .

 

[vvanders]

Industry far outperforms government, we all know that, because there's the profit motive and ....drumroll....competition.. But when industry controls the market, where it's no longer a "free market" (price fixing) we need the help pf government. That is one of the basic tenets of government in a free society.

Russia jokes are all upside-down these days aren't they? Like Ronald Reagan (turning over in his grave).

The irony of this conversation being carried out over a government funded technology(Internet/ARPANET, TCP, etc) shouldn't be lost on anyone.

 

[Egon]

Be aware Good People; it has been decreed that The increase in "Sceintific Knowledge" has been halted as the pinnacle of Knowledge has been achieved!

It seems some folks are not aware that new elements have been added to the Periodic Table!

 

[Redneck in training]

There won't be any truckers as the advances in automation are already leading to driverless trucks. Diesel or electric, they'll be unemployed sooner than later.

It is not only truckers. Just look at automobile assembly line on youtube. Or in fact any assemly line.

 

[Redneck in training]

Unless the Almighty adds some new elements to the periodic table, there is no way to even approach the energy density of diesel/gasoline with batteries . You can稚 cheat the laws of physics no matter how noble your goal is or how much you want it .

There is still room to stuff bigger battery in a vehicle. The problem is cost. As cost will go down the acceptance and demand for EV will rise. Is is already happening in Europe where the demand for EV outstrips the capacity to making them.
Opel To Dealers: Stop Selling The Ampera-E, We Have Too Many Orders Opel Ampera is identical car to Chevy Bolt.

 

[tomato coupe]

Unless the Almighty adds some new elements to the periodic table, there is no way to even approach the energy density of diesel/gasoline with batteries . You can稚 cheat the laws of physics no matter how noble your goal is or how much you want it .

Which laws of physics dictate the energy density of batteries cannot reach the energy density of gasoline?