Test challenge, face off & bet - Anyone game?

[Ozarker]

Well.....it is a garden tractor and it can do all those things. But I don't use it for all those things. And I wouldn't get a two wheel walk behind to do all those things either. I already have a walk behind two wheel rear tine tiller. That's why I just bought a 3 point tiller for my tractor. I have a two wheel walk behind snow blower. It's for sale...........

I have done my time in a machine similar to your's, a Yazoo walk behind with the optional seat. No thanks. I got tired of every bump trying to shove that pitiful little seat up my rear or trying to launch me over the handlebars.

I'm glad you like your machine but in my opinion it is too much money for a marginally useful piece of equipment. But if you want to do a little grass cutting competition come on down. I have plenty of grass to cut.

My tiller is in the shop but I can still cut grass. If your tiller is in the shop, your lawn mower is in the shop as well.

 

[Libertine]

slowrev:

<font color="blue">I wonder how hard it is to stay on that sulkey on slopes ? It is a bit difficult to keep from sliding off the Gravely ones. </font>

Very hard when mowing with the slope - but only took a few seconds to detach for "slope" mowing. Mowing up/down no problem though.

<font color="blue">I would like to ask if you mow 1 acre with the walk behind vs the rider how tired would you be after using each one ? </font>

I thought the Gravely seat very comfortable - don't know what yours was, but mine was like the old form fitting tractor seats (might have been what it was). The metal strap that held it up was flexible and "bounced" real nice (like a good spring) as you went along. I'm an old man and it wasn't tiring for me at all. The only thing I didn't like about the sulky was the turn radius was quite large - probably twice a small riding lawn mower. I've never used the BCS sulky (Dave posted a pic above) so don't know how that compares, but it looks similar to the Gravely. So, to answer the question, for me, the sulky was very comfortable (of course, it didn't have a "cup holder" as one poster pointed out!).

JEH

 

[Libertine]

Ozarker:

<font color="blue">Well.....it is a garden tractor and it can do all those things. </font>

Well, Ozarker, that's the point. I don't think it can, or, if it tries the BCS can, overall, do them better.

<font color="blue">I have done my time in a machine similar to your's, a Yazoo walk behind with the optional seat. No thanks. I got tired of every bump trying to shove that pitiful little seat up my rear or trying to launch me over the handlebars. </font>

I'm not familiar with the Yazoo walk behind tractor - although I've looked at their walk behind mowers (seemed solid equipment). Didn't know they made a walk behind "tractor". But I do know the Gravely seat was like the old formed metal tractor seats and was mounted on a "spring" and was quite comfortable. I'm not "skinny" and the seat supported the backside very well. Have you ever driven an old tractor? That's the kind of seat the Gravely sulky has. You attached the sulky (with its foot rests) to the lower rear of the tractor - took 10-15 seconds. The seat support (spring) was around 35-45 degrees from horizontal and had just the right amount of "give" to absorb bumps, etc. So, maybe the Yazoo rider attachment was just poorly designed.

JEH

PS If you said the Craftsman GT5000 is a great riding lawn mower I wouldn't agrue about it. In fact we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But when you claim it is a garden tractor that <font color="blue">can do all those things</font>, that's where we have a disagreement. I think the BCS is a "real" garden tractor that can outperform lawn mowers that wanna be garden tractors. Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. Instead of debating about it, that's why I proposed a test and bet. Then we'd know for sure, right? Let reality decide. If I'm wrong, it costs me $1k, but I still gain, because I learn the truth. If I'm right the $1k gain would cover the cost of doing it, which, frankly, sounds like a neat thing to do. But whichever way it went, everyone gains because they learn the truth.

 

[RalphVa]

2 wheel tractors won't push gravel or dirt much, even with dual wheels. The Gravely is only about 400 pounds. Think the BCS is even lighter.

You'll be more rested doing any of these chores on a 4 wheeler. Using 2 wheel tractors is work, even after you learn to let them do most of it.

If the Craftsman broke down, you'll spend the rest of your days working on it. That was the main problem with 2 that we had for mowing 4-5 acres of church property in NJ. Replaced them with a ZTR Scag and never regretted it.

Ralph

 

[Solo]

slowrev
I mow over an acre with my Gravely (with 30" deck)flat and slopes and walk every bit of it. I do have the sulky the old style one. I don't care much for it. I have mowed as much as 5 acres with it. I wouldn't trade this machine for anything in the world it still makes me mad to this day that Gravely quit making these machines.
Solo

 

[MossRoad]

What is the price comparrison of the BCS VS the Sears for the tasks you mention?

1) mows 1/2 acre level ground
2) mows 1/2 acre rough & hilly ground
3) prepares a 5,000 sq ft food plot, turned 8" deep & tilled ready for seeding
<font color="red">I'm assuming a tiller attachment here? </font>
4) make 10 bushels of mulch
<font color="red"> which attachment? </font>
5) make 10 bushels of compost ready waste
<font color="red"> which attachment? </font>
6) move 1,000 lbs of gravel from one place to a driveway
<font color="red"> towing a cart, I'm assuming again? </font>
7) level (grade) the gravel over the drive
<font color="red">some sort of blade? </font>
and whatever else seems reasonable. I would love a snow blower test, but not the right time of year for that.

Can someone fill in the prices?

Tractor:BCS______>>>SEARS_____
Mower Deck:BCS______>>>SEARS_____
Tiller:BCS______>>>SEARS_____
Mulcher?:BCS______>>>SEARS_____
Cart:BCS______>>>SEARS_____
Grader Blade:BCS______>>>SEARS_____

Thanks.
/forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[Ozarker]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Well, Ozarker, that's the point. I don't think it can, )</font>

If you don't think it can then why are you trying to make this silly bet?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( or, if it tries the BCS can, overall, do them better )</font>

So using that standard, ie. one can do it better so the other isn't a "real" lawn tractor, a 30hp CUT isn't a real tractor because a 60hp Utility tractor can do it better.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( PS If you said the Craftsman GT5000 is a great riding lawn mower I wouldn't argue about it. In fact we wouldn't even be having this discussion. But when you claim it is a garden tractor that <font color="blue">can do all those things</font>, that's where we have a disagreement. )</font>

You don't honestly think I care if you agree or not....do you?

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( I think the BCS is a "real" garden tractor that can outperform lawn mowers that wanna be garden tractors. )</font>

This reminds me of another absurd argument last year about Pickup trucks vs. "real" trucks.

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Maybe I'm wrong, maybe not. Instead of debating about it, that's why I proposed a test and bet. Then we'd know for sure, right? Let reality decide. If I'm wrong, it costs me $1k, but I still gain, because I learn the truth. If I'm right the $1k gain would cover the cost of doing it, which, frankly, sounds like a neat thing to do. But whichever way it went, everyone gains because they learn the truth. )</font>

There is nothing at all to test. The equipment is available and has been for many years. It works. Hell, I tilled a 1/2 acre plot with a 13hp Sears mower a few years ago. Why on gods earth would I want to waste any time trying to prove to you that equipment that has been available and used for years works.

If you don't like the Sears Lawn tractor I would hope that you have enough sense not to buy one. If, as you say, you want to learn something then just read on. I promise I won't charge you $1000 for the information.

The GT5000 is a 22hp gas lawn tractor. It has a 50" deck and does a fine job of mowing. It also does a fine job of pulling my 60" Swisher trail mower. I mow a 9' swath with that setup.

It also does a fine job of pulling a core aerator, lawn roller and dethatcher. If I mount my 42" blade, it does a fine job of pushing snow or spreading gravel and top soil.

And if I mount my neighbors 36" 5HP pull behind tiller on it. I can probably till twice as much as you can in the same amount of time.

All the while I am doing this, I am sitting on a very comfortable seat listening to the radio I hang from my sun cover and occasionally sipping iced tea from the sports cup sitting in the cup holder on my fender.

And I have no need to prove any of that to you. It just is.

You don't really want to know if it will do all that? You already know that it will. You wan't to see if it will do it to some arbitrary standard that you have set........and THAT's silly.

I hope you like the equipment you bought, but please quit blowing smoke.



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</font><font color="blue" class="small">(

 

[Dewave]

HI!

 

[Libertine]

Mossroad:

<font color="blue">What is the price comparrison of the BCS VS the Sears for the tasks you mention? </font>

The base price for the Craftsman GT5000 with 50" mower deck is around $2k (at least I saw one advertised at that price in a Sears tool store a couple days ago). I don't know the prices of other attachments sold by Sears. You could check with Ozarker. A BCS will run between $2k & $3k depending on model. The 38" mower deck will run around $950 but includes a bagger (which can be used or not). This is an extra on the GT5000. The BCS mower deck uses swing away blades while the GT5000 are fixed.

As far as the other options to perform the "test", a heavy duty "brush hog" mower will run $675, or a real heavy duty flail mower is around $1k. Or, you could use a sickle bar ranging between $700-$1,100 (depending on width - $1.1k getting you a 5' wide cutter running in an oil bath gearbox). For preparation of a "food plot" you could use a tiller at around $450, or, a rotary plow at $900 (the rotary plow would do a more thorough job probably in one pass). Manufacture of mulch and processing of wet material/shredding could be done with a chipper/shredder which is around $1,100. Grading/leveling with a 3' grader/dozer blade (can push with it, or, by switching the handle bars, pull with it). Hauling can be done with a 12 cu ft riding dump cart at $350.

As I said, don't know the price of the Sears stuff. But they advertise it as a general purpose garden tractor. The overall cost of the BCS would be higher, but the extra cost is in the quality, not hp or weight. The GT5000 has more horsepower and more weight, and so, if it were a "real" garden tractor, it should have an edge. Again, the extra cost of the BCS is in the quality and long life. This type of equipment (old Gravelies, newer BCS, etc.) are real, lifetime equipment with all the flexibility of the CUT and made to agricultural quality standards. One of the virtures of the CUT is as a universal power source so you can do a few things now, and add implements to do more stuff in the future as the need arises. The walk behind (yes, you can ride on a sulky for some tasks if you want) "real" garden tractors offer the same flexibility of a universal power source only on a smaller scale.

The point of all this is that for a property owner with a few acres, a "real" garden tractor, such as the BCS, is a reasonable option for many of the tasks that a person in that situation might do around their homestead, and, would cost much, much less than an equivalent CUT (such as the BX1500 mentioned by someone) in initial cost and long term upkeep. The second point is that stuff sold as garden tractors are really lawn mowers and could not perform these tasks as well even though they are heavier and have more HP. There's nothing wrong with being a lawn mower, my objection is to a lawn mower pretending to be a garden tractor.

I believe that a "test" is an interesting project that I, and any other open minded people, might find interesting. Manufacturers used to have comparative field tests with the results public. However, it appears no one is willing to bet on the competency of a lawn mower pretending to be a garden tractor.

Don't know if this answers your question. Hope so.

JEH

PS how's things up around south bend?

 

[Henro]

<font color="blue">The second point is that stuff sold as garden tractors are really lawn mowers and could not perform these tasks as well even though they are heavier and have more HP. There's nothing wrong with being a lawn mower, my objection is to a lawn mower pretending to be a garden tractor.
</font>

After pondering this question (with out realizing it) for several days (and enjoying the links to the 2-wheel tractor sites), I am beginning to think that the line up is something like this:

Egon with his had tools... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif
Push mower, you are the engine...anyone remember these?
Push mower, gas engine
Self-propelled push mower
Lawn tractor of some kind (grass cutter only)
Garden tractor (can do misc. garden tasks) like GT5000
Two wheel tractors (can really do farm work)
Sub CUT
CUT
Real tractors for the heavier stuff

Ozarker has reported his GT5000 can indeed do at minimum light garden tasks, similar to those proposed in this challange.

Looking at the 2-wheel tractor sites, I doubt that the GT5000 would be able to do all the things a 2-wheel tractor can do, if for no other reason, just because the implements are probably not available.

Garden tractors are better than lawn tractors at doing garden type things. At least that is my personal experience. But they are not going to perform as well as a sub CUT.

2-wheel tractors are likely going to do more than a garden tractor, since they are designed and used to do more. While they may do the same things, it looks to me like the 2-wheel tractor, will do the grunt work a little deeper, a little longer (in terms of tractor life span). Except for lawn cutting, where the GT5000 will shine.

I guess what I am saying is that this challenge is really comparing two different classes of machines. About the same as comparing the GT5000 to a lawn tractor (if they still make lawn tractors) or the 2-wheel tractor to a sub CUT.

As an example of what I am trying to get across, take tilling. My guess is that the GT5000 might till an area faster than the BCS 2-wheeler, but maybe on closer look, the BCS might actually turn the soil twice as deep. So maybe it would take 2 (or 3) passes by the GT5000 to produce the same quality job. So faster would really be slower...