japody
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That's a lotta barbeque!
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texasjohn
Super Member
One shot did it! Must have been good shot placement! Thirty yards on the run, 707 lbs.
I'd like an opportunity like that. I took a 200 lb boar with a single .223 shot this year at about the same distance. I might have needed some of the rest of my 20 round magazine had it been 707 lbs!
I'd like an opportunity like that. I took a 200 lb boar with a single .223 shot this year at about the same distance. I might have needed some of the rest of my 20 round magazine had it been 707 lbs!
k0ua
Epic Contributor
What are you using for ammo in the .223/5.56 ? I am especially interested what the bullet is. And have you had any trouble stopping hogs with it.?
texasjohn
Super Member
Winchester Super X 223 Rem 64gr Power Point Rifle Ammo. In a KelTex SU16 Charlie, 16" barrel, 1:9 twist.
I'm a firm believer that bullet placement is far more important than caliber. That said, I chose the 64gr because it is on the heavy side and still shoots accurately from my gun. I spent a lot of time reading what various people say regarding use of 223 for hogs. Seems there are the "bigger is better" folks who think that 223 is puny for hogs and the "shot placement" folks who gave lots of examples of downed hogs with their 223. I have a friend who hunts coyotes year round and therefore shoots lots of hogs with his hand loads for .223 as well. He says he shoots at head/neck juncture. He hasn't had any problems with lethality. Me, I try to make my first shot count...then if there are multiple targets remaining I'll use the semiautomatic capability to follow retreating hogs.
this was my first hunting season with it. The hog I shot dropped immediately, shot just behind the ear, and kicked a couple of times, feebly. bullet did not exit, very large blood flow from mouth, obviously bullet tumbled/fragmented hitting spine and jugular.
Coyote shot thru heart dropped so fast that I didn't even see it fall, at about 100 yards, no twitch. Bullet exited far side, obviously tumbling.
I dropped two axis in their tracks, head/neck shots at 80 yards, one never moved, other twitched once. Damage to spine/jugular so massive I did not need to bleed either out. I have a scope on the rifle, variable to 9X.
My opinion, so far, is that it is as deadly as the 30-30, 264 magnum and 270 I have used for years, but the total visible destruction is less. I wouldn't shoot with it thru grass/weeds the way I would with a heavy 30-30 bullet because I know it will blow up when it hits a grass blade. A 270 would blow all the way thru an axis buck shot in heart/lung area. A 30-30 bullet stops just under the skin on the far side of an axis buck heart/lung shot (2 out of 3 times) . Haven't heart/lung shot an axis with it yet but believe that the above bullet would penetrate into heart/lung area and then tumble/fragment there causing massive damage stopping the animal just like my other calibers, all following a 30 to 50 yard run.
My net...the best gun is the one you have with you that can be brought to bear, accurately and quickly, on the target. I love my SU16 Charlie semiautomatic because it is extremely light and a 20 round magazine allows multiple follow up shots without loosing sight picture. The other guns are lever and bolt actions, weigh a lot more and multiple accurate shots on fast moving hogs are not really an option.
Hope this gives you my view of lethality of a .223. On a very large hog, I would still take a standing ear canal/neck shot and follow up if needed with multiple shots. I would take the shot out to 200 yards only if the target were never going to get closer. On the likes of a 700 lb hog, the head/neck area is so large that I believe I would continue to target that area if multiple shots were needed...while a body shot would likely lead to death, I doubt it would be within 50 yards.
I'm a firm believer that bullet placement is far more important than caliber. That said, I chose the 64gr because it is on the heavy side and still shoots accurately from my gun. I spent a lot of time reading what various people say regarding use of 223 for hogs. Seems there are the "bigger is better" folks who think that 223 is puny for hogs and the "shot placement" folks who gave lots of examples of downed hogs with their 223. I have a friend who hunts coyotes year round and therefore shoots lots of hogs with his hand loads for .223 as well. He says he shoots at head/neck juncture. He hasn't had any problems with lethality. Me, I try to make my first shot count...then if there are multiple targets remaining I'll use the semiautomatic capability to follow retreating hogs.
this was my first hunting season with it. The hog I shot dropped immediately, shot just behind the ear, and kicked a couple of times, feebly. bullet did not exit, very large blood flow from mouth, obviously bullet tumbled/fragmented hitting spine and jugular.
Coyote shot thru heart dropped so fast that I didn't even see it fall, at about 100 yards, no twitch. Bullet exited far side, obviously tumbling.
I dropped two axis in their tracks, head/neck shots at 80 yards, one never moved, other twitched once. Damage to spine/jugular so massive I did not need to bleed either out. I have a scope on the rifle, variable to 9X.
My opinion, so far, is that it is as deadly as the 30-30, 264 magnum and 270 I have used for years, but the total visible destruction is less. I wouldn't shoot with it thru grass/weeds the way I would with a heavy 30-30 bullet because I know it will blow up when it hits a grass blade. A 270 would blow all the way thru an axis buck shot in heart/lung area. A 30-30 bullet stops just under the skin on the far side of an axis buck heart/lung shot (2 out of 3 times) . Haven't heart/lung shot an axis with it yet but believe that the above bullet would penetrate into heart/lung area and then tumble/fragment there causing massive damage stopping the animal just like my other calibers, all following a 30 to 50 yard run.
My net...the best gun is the one you have with you that can be brought to bear, accurately and quickly, on the target. I love my SU16 Charlie semiautomatic because it is extremely light and a 20 round magazine allows multiple follow up shots without loosing sight picture. The other guns are lever and bolt actions, weigh a lot more and multiple accurate shots on fast moving hogs are not really an option.
Hope this gives you my view of lethality of a .223. On a very large hog, I would still take a standing ear canal/neck shot and follow up if needed with multiple shots. I would take the shot out to 200 yards only if the target were never going to get closer. On the likes of a 700 lb hog, the head/neck area is so large that I believe I would continue to target that area if multiple shots were needed...while a body shot would likely lead to death, I doubt it would be within 50 yards.
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Here is a different report - North Carolina Hunters Bag Massive 707-pound Wild Boar | OutdoorHub
The question of the day - If the animal is running straight at you, how is this shot made?
"It was a mountain of a hog, and it ran straight at the hunters with the intent of mowing them down. As the hog charged, Florence said he downed the pig with just one shot in the heart behind the fatty gristle plate that protected the animal痴 vitals."
The question of the day - If the animal is running straight at you, how is this shot made?
"It was a mountain of a hog, and it ran straight at the hunters with the intent of mowing them down. As the hog charged, Florence said he downed the pig with just one shot in the heart behind the fatty gristle plate that protected the animal痴 vitals."
MoKelly
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The first article says the two guys dragged the animal -- with the help of the terrain --- out of the deep woods.
I will tell you there is no way I would even attempt to drag a dead 700 pound pig anywhere --- even if it was downhill.
I am guessing this story is getting a little like fish stories --- the more times it is told the more dangerous and interesting it becomes.
MoKelly
I will tell you there is no way I would even attempt to drag a dead 700 pound pig anywhere --- even if it was downhill.
I am guessing this story is getting a little like fish stories --- the more times it is told the more dangerous and interesting it becomes.
MoKelly
texasjohn
Super Member
The other account says:
Bruce estimated that the hog was about 30 yards away when it angled just slightly to expose its vitals. Bruce pulled the trigger of his .25-06 rifle and dropped the massive beast.
I found this superb and extensive discussion of the cartridge, which I admit to never before hearing about:
.25-06 Remington
Debate is always rife regarding the game weight limitations of the .25-06. The .25-06 is often declared a lighter medium game cartridge but realistically the .25-06 would fit the needs of most hunters world wide. This is an ideal cartridge for a great many of the worlds deer species so perhaps it is best regarded as simply either a medium game or deer cartridge rather than a lighter medium game cartridge. On light medium game, the .25-06 is a spectacular killer to say the least. On larger medium game, the .25-06 can be relied on to produce clean kills. This cartridge is really at its limit on Elk sized game for ordinary hunting / cross body shots if fast humane kills are to be expected. The .25-06 will indeed handle much larger animals with carefully placed head and neck shots but should be considered extreme.
Nothing in either report says what ammo he used. It appears that luck, distance, shot placement and hunting experience were on the side of the hunter in this case.
k0ua, I found the following very complete discussion regarding .223 performance...seems head/neck shots are what is recommended. Given the wide variability of twist, bullet weight, bullet shape, etc. it would seem that selecting for maximum accuracy for your rifle, would be first priority, then bullet performance.
.223 Remington
Bruce estimated that the hog was about 30 yards away when it angled just slightly to expose its vitals. Bruce pulled the trigger of his .25-06 rifle and dropped the massive beast.
I found this superb and extensive discussion of the cartridge, which I admit to never before hearing about:
.25-06 Remington
Debate is always rife regarding the game weight limitations of the .25-06. The .25-06 is often declared a lighter medium game cartridge but realistically the .25-06 would fit the needs of most hunters world wide. This is an ideal cartridge for a great many of the worlds deer species so perhaps it is best regarded as simply either a medium game or deer cartridge rather than a lighter medium game cartridge. On light medium game, the .25-06 is a spectacular killer to say the least. On larger medium game, the .25-06 can be relied on to produce clean kills. This cartridge is really at its limit on Elk sized game for ordinary hunting / cross body shots if fast humane kills are to be expected. The .25-06 will indeed handle much larger animals with carefully placed head and neck shots but should be considered extreme.
Nothing in either report says what ammo he used. It appears that luck, distance, shot placement and hunting experience were on the side of the hunter in this case.
k0ua, I found the following very complete discussion regarding .223 performance...seems head/neck shots are what is recommended. Given the wide variability of twist, bullet weight, bullet shape, etc. it would seem that selecting for maximum accuracy for your rifle, would be first priority, then bullet performance.
.223 Remington
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k0ua
Epic Contributor
TexasJohn, thanks for your insightful and informative post's and links about your usage of the .223 on Medium game animals. Like many others I have shot the .223/5.56 for years, but never at game animals. I have always relied on heavier cartridges and bullets for them. As for the Norinco FMJ's I have fired thousands of them at paper and steel targets, and never thought about using them on a game animal. I am glad to see you are having good success with the .223 in this role.
HCJtractor
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My only comment would be head/neck shots are not a great choice for the average hunter who shoots a box of shells a year. I understand the author is very familiar with his rifle and it's ballistics and through practice has confidence in his accuracy. But for the average Joe, a broadside lung shot offers a much larger target and will give a better chance of recovery . And a .223 is a poor choice for that. Give me a bigger bore and a bullet weighing at least 130 grains.
For shooting hogs running with a .223 , I'm sure that's a blast and frankly who cares about recovery when exterminating them is the goal, but do that to a deer and I doubt you'll ever find it .
But I agree. Shot placement is most important with any caliber, but there's more room for error and a better chance of a good blood trail with more powerful calibers,
For shooting hogs running with a .223 , I'm sure that's a blast and frankly who cares about recovery when exterminating them is the goal, but do that to a deer and I doubt you'll ever find it .
But I agree. Shot placement is most important with any caliber, but there's more room for error and a better chance of a good blood trail with more powerful calibers,
Thanks for the endorsement of Win 64gr PP bullets! I bought a bunch of them to reload for my Mini-14 but haven't yet worked up a load recipe for them. I find it strange that the "Winchester Reloading Data Center" does not have any data for the 64gr PP bullet!
- Jay
texasjohn
Super Member
I struggled with using FMJ or Winchester 64 gr PP when going hunting. Where I hunt, shots on whitetail, axis, hog, coyote are presented from 20 yards to 150 yards. Brush and cover is a factor. I've always been a "call your shots" guy and very seldom take moving shots, preferring to place a shot exactly rather than send lead downrange. Actually, the only exceptions I can recall in the past 10+ years is three 30-30 shots at Axis bucks moving thru thick brush. I identified them via horns as real "shooters," selected a small hole in the brush and waited for them to walk into it then fired taking a heart/lung shot. Each ran 30 to 50 yards before collapsing. I actually hate that, much prefer the instant drop from a head/neck shot.
Net is, I selected a .223 shell which I found to be accurate in my gun and I was comfortable shooting. Am pleased with its performance so far. I noted the following comments in the .223 link I left in an earlier post.
As a varmint or target shooting cartridge, the .223 is an outstanding performer, inexpensive and capable of great accuracy. As a medium game cartridge, the .223 is under powered if fast killing is to be expected with ordinary chest shots. The one exception is when using tumbling FMJ ammunition which completely and utterly changes the performance of this cartridge on medium game.
The tumbling 55 grain bullet is truly violent and fast killing and is the most effective medium game hunting load for the .223. Exit wounds on medium game are often as wide as 3? However, it must be stated that when full metal jacket ammunition tumbles, the bullet also very gradually falls to pieces due to the unsealed base of the bullet allowing jacket core separation. Because the process is gradual, wounding occurs through vitals and bone, rather than on impact resulting in adequate penetration for all but tail on shots on medium game.
I dunno....if going exclusively after hogs and anticipating multiple and moving targets, I might load up with FMJ to see how they work. First shot however, will always be careful and near the ear canal.
JRobyn, the site I mentioned gives lots of comments on hand loads and performance. I tend to believe these guys, they have shot LOTS of game in New Zeland and observed ballistic performance under a wide variety of conditions.
Net is, I selected a .223 shell which I found to be accurate in my gun and I was comfortable shooting. Am pleased with its performance so far. I noted the following comments in the .223 link I left in an earlier post.
As a varmint or target shooting cartridge, the .223 is an outstanding performer, inexpensive and capable of great accuracy. As a medium game cartridge, the .223 is under powered if fast killing is to be expected with ordinary chest shots. The one exception is when using tumbling FMJ ammunition which completely and utterly changes the performance of this cartridge on medium game.
The tumbling 55 grain bullet is truly violent and fast killing and is the most effective medium game hunting load for the .223. Exit wounds on medium game are often as wide as 3? However, it must be stated that when full metal jacket ammunition tumbles, the bullet also very gradually falls to pieces due to the unsealed base of the bullet allowing jacket core separation. Because the process is gradual, wounding occurs through vitals and bone, rather than on impact resulting in adequate penetration for all but tail on shots on medium game.
I dunno....if going exclusively after hogs and anticipating multiple and moving targets, I might load up with FMJ to see how they work. First shot however, will always be careful and near the ear canal.
JRobyn, the site I mentioned gives lots of comments on hand loads and performance. I tend to believe these guys, they have shot LOTS of game in New Zeland and observed ballistic performance under a wide variety of conditions.
Here are some similar links:
