The dozer search...

[GManBart]

I posted some of this over on the Heavy Equipment Forum, and I know a number of folks are on both sites, so I apologize if you've already read this, but I'm hoping for a different perspective here. If I listen to some of the folks over there I'll wind up with a new D10 that won't fit in my barn :laughing:

I'm back to looking for a small farm dozer again....had one, sold it to a buddy who said I could use it whenever I wanted, then he sold it. I have a number of projects that need to happen in phases, and it's probably going to take me a year or so to get everything done, so renting is out. I just cutting fence lines through light stuff (2-3" and I'll cut down anything larger), pushing a couple of thousand yards of dirt to reclaim a lot that had a house on it (we knocked it down), etc. I've been looking at stuff in the 15K pound range, but I'm 0 for 3 getting to decent, reasonably priced machines fast enough. One was a Deere 450C, the other was a Dresser TD8G, and the last one was a Cat D3.

A dealer a couple of hours from me has what looks to be a nice 1983 Cat D3b that's been repainted (yes, I know the risks there) and has a really nice undercarriage (they say 80% average, which looks reasonable from the pics) and estimate 5K hours on it. I know some folks don't like peddle steer, and some folks are really anti-dry clutches and brakes, but I don't think either is a major factor for weekend warrior use so long as I make sure to keep water out, and not let it sit for long without running it a bit.

A dealer a few miles away has a decent 1997 Dresser TD8H that they say has about a 50% UC, with the pins and bushings just turned, new sprockets, decent looking pads/grousers and reasonable paint for its age. The meter shows something over 6K hours, but I have no idea if it works or not. It looks appropriate for its age, and I'm guessing the paint is original, so I don't think there's a hidden story there.

I think either machine would do anything I need. The Cat is older, weighs 2K pounds less, has 15hp less, but has a better UC. The fact that it's older, means it's also simpler, and probably easier to fix if need be. Lastly, the CAT dealer is by far the closest to me if I need parts. The Dresser is 14 years newer, weighs more, has more power, but the UC isn't as good, but would probably be harder to work on, and it might take more effort to get parts if needed.

I'll add the links below, but I'm curious what everybody thinks. I'm thinking of visiting both and if both are decent machines, just let the sales guys know that whoever makes the better deal will get the sale....be polite about it, but try to get them to come off their prices (which tend to be high on the online listing sites anyway). Anybody run either of these machines?

I'm having issues getting pictures to show on Machinerytrader's site, but if you click on the dealer's name, it will take you to a separate listing, and the pics seem to work fine.

MachineryTrader.com | 1983 CAT D3B For Sale

MachineryTrader.com | 1997 DRESSER TD8H For Sale

 

[EddieWalker]

Before I would consider Dresser, I would make sure I could get parts for it. Nothing breaks down as often as a dozer. Personally, I started out with a Deere 450G and liked it for finish work, but hated it for clearing and moving debris. Just not enough power to really do anything with it. During summer when the soil is super dry and hard, the blade just slid over the top of it and no amount of angle with the tips of the blade would break through it. My neighbor had a guy out on his place clearing his fence line with a D4 that did OK, but he had rippers and for trees of any size, they brought in a 315 Cat excavator to take them out. Then used a full sized backhoe and a 80 hp Deere 4x4 tractor to either drag them or pull the trailer after the excavator loaded them.

When I bought mine, I wanted something with enough power to do most anything I wanted. I went with Case thinking they would have the parts for mine, but they don't. Case isn't great at supporting their older equipment. Once they stop making it, they don't even try to help you out any more. Good thing for scrap yards or my dozer would never run again. At 170 hp and 40,000 pounds, it's a good mid sized dozer that can take out good sized trees, push large piles and with an 8 way blade, do a fair job of grading.

If I was buying again, I would probably go with something a little smaller. I don't use it for clearing any more. I learned that the backhoe is faster and cleaner taking out trees. My pond is dug, so moving a lot of dirt isn't an issue any more either. Now it's just for shaping the land, spreading dirt piles and finish work. Smaller would be easier to handle and probably give me a nicer finish. Or not. Might just be me. I will never know, it's what I have and what I'll keep on using.

 

[moriboy]

I may have posted on your thread on the other site, if so I would've said take a look at the G series Jd's.
Lots of them out there, parts support should be good, and they are just nice little machines. I have a 650 which
seems to be about the right size for my ranch projects. Maybe a tad small for moving bigger brush piles.
Mine is pedal steer which is a first for me and I like it better than hand clutches.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

I'll vote for JD's parts network on the older dozers. Currently working on a 550 and have been able to get 95% of the parts we needed for it. The aftermarket helped out with the rest that didn't need to be machined. Bushings and what not did.

 

[GManBart]

Before I would consider Dresser, I would make sure I could get parts for it. Nothing breaks down as often as a dozer. Personally, I started out with a Deere 450G and liked it for finish work, but hated it for clearing and moving debris. Just not enough power to really do anything with it. During summer when the soil is super dry and hard, the blade just slid over the top of it and no amount of angle with the tips of the blade would break through it. My neighbor had a guy out on his place clearing his fence line with a D4 that did OK, but he had rippers and for trees of any size, they brought in a 315 Cat excavator to take them out. Then used a full sized backhoe and a 80 hp Deere 4x4 tractor to either drag them or pull the trailer after the excavator loaded them.

When I bought mine, I wanted something with enough power to do most anything I wanted. I went with Case thinking they would have the parts for mine, but they don't. Case isn't great at supporting their older equipment. Once they stop making it, they don't even try to help you out any more. Good thing for scrap yards or my dozer would never run again. At 170 hp and 40,000 pounds, it's a good mid sized dozer that can take out good sized trees, push large piles and with an 8 way blade, do a fair job of grading.

If I was buying again, I would probably go with something a little smaller. I don't use it for clearing any more. I learned that the backhoe is faster and cleaner taking out trees. My pond is dug, so moving a lot of dirt isn't an issue any more either. Now it's just for shaping the land, spreading dirt piles and finish work. Smaller would be easier to handle and probably give me a nicer finish. Or not. Might just be me. I will never know, it's what I have and what I'll keep on using.

Hey Eddie,

It seems that Dresser parts aren't too hard to find, at least on the newer machines if you go off the comments I've seen in a number of places. Still, I'm guessing the local CAT dealer probably has overall better parts support, and they're much closer.

I don't plan on tackling any large trees...I'll just cut those down and dig the root ball out with my backhoe, then toss it in the dump truck or dump trailer as necessary. Most of the dirt I have is already on site, in big piles. I'll move fill from the big piles to where I need it with the dump truck and partially spread dump it. So, most of the dirt work will really be true finish type work.

I'd love to go up a size or two, but after buying a backhoe, dump truck, dump trailer, and scissor lift in the past 2 years my equipment budget won't allow that without really looking at worn machines. It seems locally that the smaller machines sell pretty quickly if they're under $20K, and since I plan on selling it after I get the projects done, I'm trying to factor that in as well....even if I take a loss it will be far less than it would have been renting. Also, as wonderful and understanding as my wife is, if I bring home something that looks like a piece of junk she's going to tease me :laughing:

 

[GManBart]

I may have posted on your thread on the other site, if so I would've said take a look at the G series Jd's.
Lots of them out there, parts support should be good, and they are just nice little machines. I have a 650 which
seems to be about the right size for my ranch projects. Maybe a tad small for moving bigger brush piles.
Mine is pedal steer which is a first for me and I like it better than hand clutches.

I've looked hard for a 450G, and would have even been okay with a 450C, D or E, but the couple I've seen that were decent and not ridiculously priced sold quickly. I'm sure I can find one, but not close enough that hauling it here wouldn't be a major hassle, and expensive. I really need to stay under $20K, and pretty much any G series under that price is likely to have run out tracks.

 

[GManBart]

I'll vote for JD's parts network on the older dozers. Currently working on a 550 and have been able to get 95% of the parts we needed for it. The aftermarket helped out with the rest that didn't need to be machined. Bushings and what not did.

I've heard that other places as well. There have been a couple of 450 and 550s that I was interested in, but they all sold quickly.

There's a 550B listed on CL about 150mi from me, but the tracks look pretty tired (no adjustment left). I've also heard the 550s were sort of an orphan in the Deere line, and some had transmission issues that got expensive quickly....but I could be mistaken.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I've always had a thing for the JD 350s and 450s. But my reading seems to suggest that even the later wet ones arn't your best bet. The CASE 450 seems to be a better all round machine.

A guy I know bought aused JD 750 at auction and one of his first jobs was at my place. I think it blew every hose on there within the first month or so. Then a drive motor blew and it's been parked since. That was a few years ago! He actually bought another 750.

I don't know if I will ever get into the dozer money pit, but think if I did, I would try and find a machine where I knew the history and owner.

Plus, I would spend a little more. Buy the one where the other guy put a pile of money into it, that he won't get out, rather then you becoming that guy.

 

[GManBart]

I've always had a thing for the JD 350s and 450s. But my reading seems to suggest that even the later wet ones arn't your best bet. The CASE 450 seems to be a better all round machine.

A guy I know bought aused JD 750 at auction and one of his first jobs was at my place. I think it blew every hose on there within the first month or so. Then a drive motor blew and it's been parked since. That was a few years ago! He actually bought another 750.

I don't know if I will ever get into the dozer money pit, but think if I did, I would try and find a machine where I knew the history and owner.

Plus, I would spend a little more. Buy the one where the other guy put a pile of money into it, that he won't get out, rather then you becoming that guy.

The Case 450 is smaller than a Deere 450, and in large part, they don't seem to be favored. I guess it's just like anything else...some folks love them, some folks hate them. The earlier ones with both brake pedals and levers for each track are on the awkward side according to many of the comments I've seen. All of them that I've seen around here stay on the market for ages before they sell, and that isn't the case with CAT, Deere or Dressers in the same size range. Since I plan to only keep the dozer for a year or so I want to get something that will be easier to sell.

I'd love to wait around to find a machine with a known history, but that's going to take a lot of luck. If I was going to keep it forever I'd approach this differently, but this is going to be a cash deal that I have to keep reasonable. I've spent over $60K on equipment in the last 12-18mos so I really need to keep this under $20K. The scary part is I've spent a lot more than that on my barn/shop...yikes. My wife is very understanding, but I don't want to test her limits! My hope is to buy something that will let me set aside a couple grand in the repair fund right off the bat.

I totally agree that it makes sense to buy as good of a machine as possible, and let the other guy take the depreciation. That's part of what makes me interested in the Cat D3B...it looks clean, and the UC looks really good. If the engine runs fine and the transmission seems solid it seems like the most likely gotchas are covered (although anything can happen at any time).

 

[Industrial Toys]

I always try and buy things that I "Think" I can sell without too much difficulty. But I have learned my lessons as well, the hard way.

That gives me hope for a JD 450 someday. A later wet clutch one, but I am now a little confused about all I have read.

A friend and neighbour bought a new Dresser trim dozer some years ago. I had never even heard of them and thought, WHY? I guess, they are actually made by some respectable company, but forget who. I never did ask this guy, how the machine was, after all these years.

My friend with the 750s, really likes his little Komatsu with rubber tracks.

My dream would be to find a JD 450 at an estate sale. One where you can see how the guy cared for his stuff. In truth though, around here with all the stoney ground, an excavator is king.