"The House" $40K paint job? $110K GC fee?

[BillG_in_TX]

Re: ICF decision

Dan,

Thanks for your thoughts on this.

The cost factor is one that's not holding me back. I am fairly sure that the energy and insurance savings in Texas will offset the increase in building costs/mortgage payment. Of course, as I recall that you are trying to avoid a mortgage, so up-front costs are more important.

Another major plus for ICF is that my wife is certain that there is a tornado out there with her name on it. After the nearby Jarrell tornado (F5) a few years ago, our ridge property started looking dangerous to her, and ICF's certainly address that issue.

Anyway, thanks for all your information. I know you have been researching this a long time, and I value your opinions. Most of my construction industry friends and clients look at me "sideways" /w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif when I bring up ICF's.

 

[dmccarty]

Re: ICF decision

BillG49,

Hmmm, insurance.... I'll have to ask the insurance company about
costs for wood frame and ICFs.

I have gotten skeptical about the energy savings on ICFs. Since we
are planning on having a high R value wall with the 2x6s I just don't
see the difference with ICFs. With the Passive Solar design and
wood stoves for winter heat and I think our winter energy costs
are very, very low. Summer might be interesting but I think
we have that solved as well....

Twisters are a whole new ball game. This is what has me and
the wife concerned. We really want a basement but its does
not look like that is going to happen. ICFs would certainly help
and its a big plus in the ICF column. I don't have a real good
answer for this. Our builder mentioned that he knows a
couple of guys who supply his concrete. They also are now
building septic tanks. And twister shelters. This may be our
solution but one I don't really like......

Building is all about compromise. Especially when money is
tight! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[ewoss3]

Re: ICF decision

Dan, there are two septic companies here in Tulsa that sell the concrete storm shelters for $1400-$1800 depending on the options like wider doors, benches, roof venting. That price was delivered and installed.

 

[dmccarty]

Re: ICF decision

ewoss3,

Thanks for the price info. I'll keep that in mind when we build.

One "problem" I have with the concrete storm shelter is that it is outside of the
house so getting into it during a storm is problematic. Since I'm building a house
I starting to wonder if I can't just stick this thing under the stairs..... /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

That actually might work.

Thanks for the info.
Dan

 

[Rch]

Re: ICF decision

Re ICFs; A factor that is important is that ICFs effectively seal a house against air infiltration which is different than its insulation value. There are many well insulated buildings with fiberglass batts or shrinking blown cellulose that have leaks of outside air along wiring, HVAC and/or plumbing pathways as well as through corners and overhangs. ICFs tend to seal those. Consequently, active control of air (and heat/humidity) exchange is necessary. In addition ICFs add to the strength of the structure by " rigidly glueing the the thing together". Another consideration that I'm unsure about is toxic outgassing in the event of fire? Does anybody know about this?

 

[ewoss3]

Re: ICF decision

Dan for under the stairs mount I would have a pit dug in the foundation then bolt a sliding door flush with the concrete(use hilti anchors) If you can weld build your top out of 3/8" steel plate with good handles and locks../w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[dmccarty]

Re: ICF decision

Rch,

I'm sure that ICFs provide a more tightly sealed house but with todays
materials I'm not sure that ICFs are really that supperior. I'm basing this
on reading the discussions among builders on the Journal of Light
Construction and Fine Home Building web sites. The big problem
now a days seems to be having houses that are to tight and thus
having air quality/mold problems.

I had the day off today and spent it figuring out window glass area
and living space area ratios. My biggest problem with our design
is that we want too many windows. For a passive solar house
a room should not have a ratio of glass to floor area of more
that 12%. Actually its 7% but if you have enough solar mass in the
room you can go to 12%. Since our floors are going to be colored
concrete it looks like we are safe. But I have two rooms that are
at 20% and 22%. The rooms are open for 18 feet from floor to
ceiling and I'm only basing the numbers on the windows on the first
floor. We want another set of windows on the "second" floor but
I'm very afraid of the numbers. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I think I can get the numbers
down by including the rooms that are attached to the solar space
but even with that help I'm afraid I'm over "budget" on heating capacity.

And I ain't even figured in the wood stove or the radient floor...

At this point it looks like I NEED a leaky house! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

As far as the ICF insulation burning and outgassing I don't think
it really is a concern since the material should be covered with
drywall which should prevent the fire from getting to the insulation.
Of course the fire will eventually burn through the drywall but by then
people are out of the house or beyond caring about the gas. /w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif

Later,
Dan

 

[dmccarty]

Re: ICF decision

ewoss3,

I have been thinking of doing just as you suggested. Our stairs are 8x12 feet
so there is plenty of space for a hidey hole. I think we could build a safe room
in there that would only have to be 4-5 feet below grade if we hardened the
area above grade. Our builder is a PE and spent many a year working with
concrete and it won't be a problem to built a concrete box. Just more
dollars. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

One of my concerns is that whatever hidey hole we have, either in the house
or outside the house has two exits if possible. And the door to the thing has
to open IN. If we have damage to the house I'm sure I'm going to have to
chainsaw my way out of the shelter.....

Later...
Dan

 

[Rch]

Re: ICF decision

Dan, I've read J of Light Construction and Fine Homebuilding for years. This really helped me when I built 11 yrs ago, especially site placement, design and dealing with the General Contractor. We have granite around here and I wanted to minimize radon infiltration. The GC looked at me like I was Flash Gordon or something. I ended up teaching him a few things. It also got us off on the right foot and we had a great relationship and ended up friends AND stayed on budget since I was able to solidify my ideas at the design stage. The recent J of Light Construction had a great article about the details of making a house more air tight.
I really enjoyed the whole process; you just got to get over the fact that your spending $2000 a day !
A few ideas that worked out for me;
1) Upstair laundry room with folding table. There is a slab with a drain for the washer and tub. I see now there is a acrylic enclosure that has a back splash up to the faucets with a drain. Also available is an electrically powered faucet that turns itself off if it senses the washing machine is off or using too much water.
2)electrical outlets in closets for dust busters, battery power tools, cameras etc
3)Central- Vac with an outlet( actually a suck inlet) by the cloth dryer, garage, kitchen counter top and kitchen toe kick space.
4) a "spook" light where in the Master bedroom flood lights on all side of the house are switched. Downstairs, the floodlight on each side of the has a switch on that side of the house. Put this switch high and seperate so it is not inadvertently turn on during the day( if it is in a bank of several switches it get turned on by mistake and burns all day- consider a switch with a pilot light, these are big bulbs!)
5) 16" deep cast iron tubs and tiled shower enclosure( way easier to clean). Put a tiled shelf or two 18" deep behind the tub for shampoos,brushes etc. This keeps them handy yet kind of hidden, especially if a shower curtain is part of the deal.
6)Floor drain in the right spot next to a basement bathroom rough-in for a steam/sauna room.
7) electrical outlet in the floor under the dining room table.
8) computer wired or better yet 'structured wire' with a central panel so a computer and phone/fax/ cable can go anywhere.
9) Brick 4' up on the driveway side of the house so kids can crash their bikes, hotwheels into it and not scar siding/wood.
10)Wire motion detector lights seperate at entrance ways, driveways so you can double click them to stay on ( takes a special motion detector fixture) Put the switch insde the house and handy
11) Have the electrician wire a back-up adjustible humidistat to the bathroom fans that run the exhaust fan til the humid air is sucked out. Put the timer switch for the bathroom fan reachable from the stool.
12) Get QUIET fans, especially in the kitchen that can be turned down low and also high. If the house is open at all, get a quiet dishwasher.
13) The kitchen sink needs a high arched faucet to get big pots under and a big unpartitioned part of the sink to wash big things in.
14) 8 foot garage doors are real handy.
15)3/4" plumbing pipe to outside faucet bibs with 3/4" ball valves to perserve the diameter deliver a lot more water for outside jobs. A ball valve inside the house and a second one outside will be needed for winterizing. Make sure pipe slopes down slightly so it will drain.

 

[ewoss3]

Re: ICF decision

Dan for secondary outlets people here use concrete pipe buried to an outside location, just make sure to have locking doors on both end of the pipe. These doors should have screening at the bottom that will allow airflow but not large enough for animals or insects. I think the minimum size was around 30" for the pipe unless you have someone with really large shoulders. Don't know if it is feasible for your situation but they modify already built homes all the time