The ideal tractor size?

[gladehound]

I love the concept of the 4wd articulated tractor. But every tractor shop around me has traditional tractors. I can sit on them, run them through their paces and see how they suit me. While articulated tractors may be out there, it's too much of a hassle to check them out. Because they are not near me, or near most people. It's not worth the time. On paper, the ones that are in CUT price range fall short on many performance specs, such as top speed for roading, lift height, lift capacity, pulling ability, traction in messy stuff. They tend to have proprietary features like that special quick attach that Powertrac has instead of a universal SSQA. These types of machines may be better for some tasks (like slope mowing or a dedicated loader tasks) but there are just too many areas where they don't seem as good as the traditional design, certainly not at the same price point.

 

[MossRoad]

I love the concept of the 4wd articulated tractor. But every tractor shop around me has traditional tractors. I can sit on them, run them through their paces and see how they suit me. While articulated tractors may be out there, it's too much of a hassle to check them out. Because they are not near me, or near most people. It's not worth the time. On paper, the ones that are in CUT price range fall short on many performance specs, such as top speed for roading, lift height, lift capacity, pulling ability, traction in messy stuff. They tend to have proprietary features like that special quick attach that Powertrac has instead of a universal SSQA. These types of machines may be better for some tasks (like slope mowing or a dedicated loader tasks) but there are just too many areas where they don't seem as good as the traditional design, certainly not at the same price point.

I wasn't going to buy one without seeing it. I was fortunate in that while I was considering them, I happened by a landscape project at a city facility, and the contractor had 2 of them on the site. Just good fortune. He let me sit on it and showed me how it worked. He operated it, and drove it around and swapped implements, etc... without that, I'd have had to make a trip to Virginia, or found an owner close by willing to let me see it.

As I've mentioned, it fits our needs. We don't need to road it. I don't have to load trucks with it, it has a great lift capacity compared to other machines weighing the same, and I don't need to pull anything in messy stuff. It just waddles right through. But that's all experience on my little 1500# machine. They make other models of differing sizes, HP, lift capacity, slope capacity, etc.... and that's not considering other brands, like the Ventrac, or any of the European models, compact telehandlers, tracked skid steers, etc.... just the one I'm familiar with.

I have a car hauler trailer. I can fit the machine, 60" finish mower, 48" brush cutter, two buckets, pallet forks and 60" power angle snowplow on the trailer with ease.

I've taken it out to our remote property with just a bucket, excavated and loaded 2 tons of black dirt onto the trailer, then loaded the machine onto the same trailer. Then drove it home or to family member's homes, the little league, etc... and used the machine to unload the trailer of the dirt at the site, then haul the machine home.

Again, that's just my little 425 model. It's really versatile, compact, can fit through a 4' gate, or into the back of a full-sized pickup (that's how I hauled it before I got the car hauler trailer).

Looking at typical homeowner-type tasks, mowing the yard, moving mulch and lose material, plowing snow, maybe some brush or rough cut mowing, cleaning up storm damage, digging small holes for landscape plantings, maybe putting in a fence, tilling the garden, hauling some firewood, etc..... these articulated machines run circles around conventional tractors of the same weight and size. Note those underlined words. Of the same weight and size. So many times over the years have people started in on me about that little machine can't outwork my tractor...... and their talking about a 3-4000# 30hp diesel machine VS a 1500# machine with a 25HP gas engine.... so keep that in mind.

Anyhow, if you ever get the opportunity to hop on one (or any different kind of machine, for that matter) and give it a workout, do it just for the fun of it. It's a hoot. :thumbsup:

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Having read through your buying experiences, they appear very similar to my interests, and I've considered that size of Mahindra for the exact reasons you stated. However, I'm also concerned about having sufficient PTO HP, as snow clearing with a blower will be my number one use.

I can't comment on the snowblower issue, as I am blessed to live in a high, sunny mountaintop location where the snow that does fall rarely lasts more than a couple of days.

I'm not one of these brand pushers. I will honestly say the Mahindra is beefy, heavy for its size, powerful for its size. Relatively wide for stability on the steep. Pretty basic mechanically. Not many electronic bells and whistles. Good ground clearance. Steering arms and other vulnerable underparts well protected. For me, these are all good things. As far as extras, I got SSQA FEL standard, good floormats, cruise control, and a bunch of other "options" people talk about, which were standard on this tractor. Apparently the FEL control isn't as nuanced as on some other brands. I can't comment on that as the learning curve for me was pretty steep, so I'm no judge. Seems sufficient for my needs so far, and 4-5 months in, I'm getting pretty good at it.

There's a lot brand loyalty, and prejudice, on this forum. Make your own decision would be my advice.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I wasn't going to buy one without seeing it. I was fortunate in that while I was considering them, I happened by a landscape project at a city facility, and the contractor had 2 of them on the site. Just good fortune. He let me sit on it and showed me how it worked. He operated it, and drove it around and swapped implements, etc... without that, I'd have had to make a trip to Virginia, or found an owner close by willing to let me see it.

As I've mentioned, it fits our needs. We don't need to road it. I don't have to load trucks with it, it has a great lift capacity compared to other machines weighing the same, and I don't need to pull anything in messy stuff. It just waddles right through. But that's all experience on my little 1500# machine. They make other models of differing sizes, HP, lift capacity, slope capacity, etc.... and that's not considering other brands, like the Ventrac, or any of the European models, compact telehandlers, tracked skid steers, etc.... just the one I'm familiar with.

I have a car hauler trailer. I can fit the machine, 60" finish mower, 48" brush cutter, two buckets, pallet forks and 60" power angle snowplow on the trailer with ease.

I've taken it out to our remote property with just a bucket, excavated and loaded 2 tons of black dirt onto the trailer, then loaded the machine onto the same trailer. Then drove it home or to family member's homes, the little league, etc... and used the machine to unload the trailer of the dirt at the site, then haul the machine home.

Again, that's just my little 425 model. It's really versatile, compact, can fit through a 4' gate, or into the back of a full-sized pickup (that's how I hauled it before I got the car hauler trailer).

Looking at typical homeowner-type tasks, mowing the yard, moving mulch and lose material, plowing snow, maybe some brush or rough cut mowing, cleaning up storm damage, digging small holes for landscape plantings, maybe putting in a fence, tilling the garden, hauling some firewood, etc..... these articulated machines run circles around conventional tractors of the same weight and size. Note those underlined words. Of the same weight and size. So many times over the years have people started in on me about that little machine can't outwork my tractor...... and their talking about a 3-4000# 30hp diesel machine VS a 1500# machine with a 25HP gas engine.... so keep that in mind.

Anyhow, if you ever get the opportunity to hop on one (or any different kind of machine, for that matter) and give it a workout, do it just for the fun of it. It's a hoot. :thumbsup:

Hey Moss, I was an inch away from buying a Power-Trac back in the day when I was considering which tractor to buy. For me there were a couple major problems: 1) NO ability to pull any kind of implement from the rear. Although I agree many implements are better mounted on the front, it IS nice to have a BB or blade on the rear and also the FEL on the front, as you can switch around. 2) You've got to maintain and repair it yourself and I'm no mechanic. and 3) It's a cash deal.

All that being said, I do feel PT has taken a great step in the right direction--away from standard tractor design. But more needs to be done IMO.

 

[Jchonline]

You have a point. Tractors are STILL designed for farming on reasonably flat, open land and they are great for those tasks. Far from ideal, for woods work, hilly land, or even the many little gardening and maintenance tasks of the average landowner. Not very agile. Too tall and narrow to be stable on hills without modifications. Little protection for vulnerable lines and underparts, leading to punctures from even small sticks. The thing that shocked me the most was the lack of visibility. You literally can't see what you're doing in front or back. Some people install mirrors.

So get used to it, and some models may be better than others. I got the widest, heaviest, smallest tractor I could find, but really think we need a completely redesigned and re-thought-out tractor specifically for the non-farmer landowner.

My ideas, just for fun:

The FEL. Could it be possible to have the back panel open, and then maybe it can swing down for when you're carrying material? Or some kind of open mesh maybe? How great would it be to be able to see the FEL edge, esp for backdragging, but also to be able to place the edge exactly where you want.

Rear Visibility. Include a large rear view mirror on a tall bracket, for folks without cabs.

Box Blade. How hard would it be to move that large support bar so you can see where the rear blades touch the ground?

3PH. A 150-year-old design. Awful. Also needs the ability to either float free or be fixed; without lots of float, you can't really use rear implements on uneven, rolling ground because your implements will simply replicate and even increase the existing contours (without constant, neck-twisting adjustments).

My ideal tractor would much shorter and wider, with more built-in weight. Small and powerful. Engine compartment much shorter for better visibility. Better noise reduction! Redesign the FEL so it's less bulky and in the way. Protected underparts. And of course my imaginary see-through FEL. I can dream, can't I?

Have you looked at a Ventrac? Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

Have you looked at a Ventrac? Ventrac Compact Tractors & Attachments

I did. It's a mower/lawn maintenance machine, and apparently a great one. But that's not what I use a tractor for.

 

[MossRoad]

Hey Moss, I was an inch away from buying a Power-Trac back in the day when I was considering which tractor to buy. For me there were a couple major problems: 1) NO ability to pull any kind of implement from the rear. Although I agree many implements are better mounted on the front, it IS nice to have a BB or blade on the rear and also the FEL on the front, as you can switch around. 2) You've got to maintain and repair it yourself and I'm no mechanic. and 3) It's a cash deal.

All that being said, I do feel PT has taken a great step in the right direction--away from standard tractor design. But more needs to be done IMO.

I pull a leaf sweeper every fall and also when I need grass clippings for the garden, a core aerator, a lawn dethatcher, and several different carts behind mine. I could pull a log arch if I needed to, but I've been using tongs on the front for the past couple years. Basically, I can pull any non-ground engaging implement. As I mentioned in a previous post, there was a member here that pulled 2 self powered finish mowers staggered off to one side, giving him a 104" cut plus the 60" cut of the PT mower. That's pretty productive. Plus, he could drop the mowers, pick up the forks, and carry the mowers sideways through estate gates and such, or load them on his trailer.

I agree about a box blade or scraper blade, though. PT makes them, but I don't have them. I had a 6 or 7' box blade on my old IH2500b. But in all honesty, I rarely used it once I built my driveway, so I sold it with the IH. Our driveway is a 12" deep trench with 6" of gravel and 6" of slag from the steel mills. It just doesn't move. No ruts. Nothing. Hard as a rock. Nothing to maintain regularly.

As far as miantiaining it yourself, yes, that is a definite consideration for a lot of folks. I enjoy working on machinery myself, so that was actually a plus for me. I can call the factory and talk to the people that built my machine. If I need something, it'll be on my doorstep, usually in 2 business days. They are ridiculously simple machines. And all plate steel construction. No sheet metal anywhere. No plastic panels. It's a tank.

As far as a cash deal, well, yeah it is, to some extent. When we bought ours, we went to the credit union, sat down with the loan officer, and he asked how much we need? I added up the price of the tractor, implements, shipping, and a new 18' car hauler trailer, looked at my wife and said we need about $12,500. She looked at the loan officer and said we need $25,000......... because she's getting a car.

So that tractor cost me dearly. :laughing: