The joys of bidding work

ultrarunner · Jun 5, 2007

Bargaining is part of the game... but no one says you have to play the game.

I look for value, just like most of us on TBN. I have built relationships with some contractors where I can tell them what I need and they take care of it and send me the bill. I always believe in paying my bills promptly and that is something people do remember.

In this case, it truly was a casual sale. I would not be surprised if you are approached again by the family the next time you are out mowing.

Professionally, when I put jobs out to bid, I go to great length to make sure the specifications I provide are accurate. Price is always important and some projects never get off the ground due to cost. I never beat someone down after the bids are in, but I also hold them to doing the job accordingly.

I know a roofer that would always do what-ever it took to get the jobs. He would always undercut another roofers bid. One day, I asked him about it and he said that when I cut my price I also cut back on the materials because labor is pretty much fixed... in other words he makes up the difference by taking it out of the roof.

On the other side, I have no qualms about naming a price first and asking a contractor if he cant do it and when. About, half the time, I will get a yes, as long as I can provide a big enough window of time before the job needs to be complete.

I don't think you did anything wrong.

MtnViewRanch · Jun 5, 2007

I don't know where to start, so I guess that I best not.

Farmwithjunk · Jun 5, 2007

OK guys, today I've got 979 REAL GOOD reasons why you don't undercut your own prices. And if anyone wants to argue, step right on up.

I took half a day off at work to help catch up on a back-log of mowing we have. (And we got it ALL at full rate, I might add) Son-in-law on the 2440. Son in the 6430. I'm on my pride and joy MF 150, and a neighbor is working part time for us, running the Ford. We're strung out at 3 locations. Along about 4pm, the sky starts getting REAL dark. I'm wearing headphones with FM radio. They are giving all sorts of severe weather warnings. It starts raining. I make a dash for the truck. Just as I pull up to the truck, I see fluid shooting out of the right rear tire. Just great, rained out AND a flat. On the trailer she goes. Just as I'm turning on to my road, I see my sons truck coming up behind me. What's he doing here? Oh well, now I have help with the flat anyway. He pulls in the drive behind me. Through the driving rain I see a rear tire and wheel (from the 6430) laying in the bed of the truck. No.....

As it turns out, he hit a broken off tee post and ripped a 6" gash in the sidewall of an almost BRAND NEW radial. It's trashed.

So, we call the tire dealer, order a new one. 3 days 'till it gets here. 3 days lost with the batwing. My flat took us a couple hours to pump down, remove tire, patch tube, re-install, and pump fluid back in. Day lost. (I managed to mow for 1 hr, 15 min)

New radial, new tube, and freight, $979

3 days down-time on the 6430. Day washed out.

Anyone wanna try to beat me down $50? Step right on up

Bob_Young · Jun 5, 2007

Amen, Brother Junk. Who knows what evil lurks in the tall grass?

I still get surprised on my own land; property I've mowed 2 or 3 x a year for the last few decades. How much information can anyone expect from someone who may not have ever seen all of his own property?

Funny thing about those tire shops. You can never tell in advance which days you're going to be working for them.
Bob

LoneCowboy · Jun 5, 2007

Preach it FarmWithJunk
I just spent 4 hours doing maint on the MF, changing oil, cleaning it, etc
All of that is of course, unpaid and never seen by the end customer.
None of those costs are ever noticed.
Much less insurance, truck maint, trailer tires (yes, I'm bitter about those), etc

jpm · Jun 5, 2007

after 30 plus yrs in wholesale/retail i can tell you some customers are not worth it. one in particuler, i was at a wholesale account when a retail cust came in who i know was a real pita so i ducked in the back. after 15 min of pure bs the store owner took out a $100.00 bill put it on the counter and said " take this and never,never ever come back again" the customer picked it up and said "thanks".
the store owner told me it was the best deal he made,the guy had cost more in
time and bs over the last month.the retail cust was happy that he was paid to get lost because he was such a pita. i would have been embarassed and left the money.but to each his own
j

Kendall69 · Jun 6, 2007

Sounds like "you" need the $400 dollars, not LC.

Since that was directed at me....any time you want to publicly post CERTIFIED P&L statements and back your sarcasm up with some cash, let me know. And FYI I make more on my stocks having coffee in the morning that this pi$$ ant $400.00.
Too bad you don't understand the gist of this thread. Private mail me and I will be glad to tutor you on what this thread is about.
FYI it ain't about the $400.00

I've seen all I need to see to convince me that customers who try to beat you down and/or "get something for nothing" are quick to dump you in favor of the next sucker that'll work for a nickel cheaper.

This is a clear example of a contractor that does what everyone else does and YES will be dumped, for the next "sucker" - BUT it's your job to do it better, faster, neater, be nicer etc.etc. etc. so the customer WILL NOT dump you at any cost. I have customer tell me to my face " we had a guy come in soliciting our business and I wouldn't even talk to him"
THAT"S MY POINT get the customer , take care of the customer, and you build a customer for life. Those of you that get it, hurrah, those that don't - great because your helping the ones that do.

I got quite an education dealing with potential snow plowing customers this past winter. The bottom line is: The richer they were, the less they wanted to pay.

Use some creativity Sheesh, no wonder I take so much business from my competition, if they sound like a lot of you.
When I 18 back in 1974 I asked my parents to sign on a bran new Dodge Power Wagon with a snow plow package $4,900.00 at the time - a Corvette was going for that. My parents didn't have money, but they trusted me.
I took all the crap snow plowing jobs out there, but here's the creative part that paid the truck off in one season.
I would give my customers a FREE 100lb bag of salt - cost m like $3.00.
Secondly I charged them for a snowplow and a half for each snow plow, which bought them FREE touch ups for 24hrs. Most of the time I made out and only plowed once, but was happy to touch up when needed. My competion "older guys" and Big companies were doing same ole same ole, heck probably still are.

It's not easy to sell every potential customer.

Actually it is, if you want it bad enough you do sell to every customer every day, that’s the whole purpose of being in business.

If you can get the call, you can close it, but not in these types

Yes you can, but it takes technique. It takes no technique to quote a number over the phone, that's called order taking. There's a number of things you can do before you quote "just a number" - once you give a customer the number they are looking for, the conversation will soon end. The trick is...well never mind I doubt people here are interested.

The money is almost secondary here. It's not about making every nickel possible, but enjoying life and doing what we enjoy

I agree, that's why both can be done successfully.

"Work for free and you'll always be busy"

Two people that come to mind who worked for free are Famous Amos, and Mrs. Fields. Both made cookies by the gross, and gave them away. Hmmmm what a concept, letting customers try your product for free, well my heavens these people must be absolutely looney - surely they'll go broke, QUICK SOMEONE LOCK THESE PEOPLE UP, there committing the biggest sin of all times working for free, in fact there losing money.
Oh wait a minute these people now have MANY MANY MILLIONS.
Now who's the fool, oh I know lemme answer this one - YOUR FRIEND.

That's my best price I already quoted you". And then we either shake hands and part company,

I thank God every day there are people on the planet just like you, because I come in and take the money that either was offered to you or would have been, had the customer not observed your firm price attitude. Again keep up your "THIS IS MY PRICE TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT" attitude, it's great for my business.

3 days down-time on the 6430. Day washed out.

It's called "the cost of doing business" Great that you pulled one miserable day to prove a point, which it didn't by the way - because you would have to fix the flat doing work at full price, half price, discounted rate, wholesale, or free.
Actually you prove my point if you had a chance to pick up several "discounted" jobs, the tire repairs would be paid for by the EXTRA CASH.
Hmmm didn't think about that did you.
And "Anyone wanna try to beat me down $50? Step right on up"
Amazing you complain about losing $50.00, but then your willing leave $400.00 in the customers pocket.... ( scratching my head, Hmmm, rubbing my chin ) ...nope I will never get it.

I just spent 4 hours doing maint on the MF, changing oil, cleaning it, etc All of that is of course, unpaid and never seen by the end customer

The only reason this was unpaid for is because you walked off a job, the $400.00 would have paid for this THAT"S MY POINT. Money offered to you pays for a lot of "stuff" that pops up - Heeeellllooooooo

fter 30 plus yrs in wholesale/retail i can tell you some customers are not worth it.

Grated, but the only way to know this is to make them a CUSTOMER FIRST, then if they are not worth keeping THEN DUMP THEM, but don't dump customers BEFORE they are customers, that doesn't make sense.

mjncad · Jun 6, 2007

Bob_Young said:
Amen, Brother Junk. Who knows what evil lurks in the tall grass?

I still get surprised on my own land; property I've mowed 2 or 3 x a year for the last few decades. How much information can anyone expect from someone who may not have ever seen all of his own property?

Bob

One of the T & C's that I put in my quote to the property manager was damage to my equipment in the event I encountered something in the tall weeds as I had never mowed, much less seen the property in question.

As I was looking to politely turn away this potential customer, it was the T & C about reimbursing me for damaged equipment in the event I encountered something ugly and hidden that did the trick for me.

Farmwithjunk · Jun 6, 2007

Kendall69 said:
Since that was directed at me....any time you want to publicly post CERTIFIED P&L statements and back your sarcasm up with some cash, let me know. And FYI I make more on my stocks having coffee in the morning that this pi$$ ant $400.00.
Too bad you don't understand the gist of this thread. Private mail me and I will be glad to tutor you on what this thread is about.
FYI it ain't about the $400.00

This is a clear example of a contractor that does what everyone else does and YES will be dumped, for the next "sucker" - BUT it's your job to do it better, faster, neater, be nicer etc.etc. etc. so the customer WILL NOT dump you at any cost. I have customer tell me to my face " we had a guy come in soliciting our business and I wouldn't even talk to him"
THAT"S MY POINT get the customer , take care of the customer, and you build a customer for life. Those of you that get it, hurrah, those that don't - great because your helping the ones that do.

Use some creativity Sheesh, no wonder I take so much business from my competition, if they sound like a lot of you.
When I 18 back in 1974 I asked my parents to sign on a bran new Dodge Power Wagon with a snow plow package $4,900.00 at the time - a Corvette was going for that. My parents didn't have money, but they trusted me.
I took all the crap snow plowing jobs out there, but here's the creative part that paid the truck off in one season.
I would give my customers a FREE 100lb bag of salt - cost m like $3.00.
Secondly I charged them for a snowplow and a half for each snow plow, which bought them FREE touch ups for 24hrs. Most of the time I made out and only plowed once, but was happy to touch up when needed. My competion "older guys" and Big companies were doing same ole same ole, heck probably still are.

Actually it is, if you want it bad enough you do sell to every customer every day, that’s the whole purpose of being in business.

Yes you can, but it takes technique. It takes no technique to quote a number over the phone, that's called order taking. There's a number of things you can do before you quote "just a number" - once you give a customer the number they are looking for, the conversation will soon end. The trick is...well never mind I doubt people here are interested.

I agree, that's why both can be done successfully.

Two people that come to mind who worked for free are Famous Amos, and Mrs. Fields. Both made cookies by the gross, and gave them away. Hmmmm what a concept, letting customers try your product for free, well my heavens these people must be absolutely looney - surely they'll go broke, QUICK SOMEONE LOCK THESE PEOPLE UP, there committing the biggest sin of all times working for free, in fact there losing money.
Oh wait a minute these people now have MANY MANY MILLIONS.
Now who's the fool, oh I know lemme answer this one - YOUR FRIEND.

I thank God every day there are people on the planet just like you, because I come in and take the money that either was offered to you or would have been, had the customer not observed your firm price attitude. Again keep up your "THIS IS MY PRICE TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT" attitude, it's great for my business.

It's called "the cost of doing business" Great that you pulled one miserable day to prove a point, which it didn't by the way - because you would have to fix the flat doing work at full price, half price, discounted rate, wholesale, or free.
Actually you prove my point if you had a chance to pick up several "discounted" jobs, the tire repairs would be paid for by the EXTRA CASH.
Hmmm didn't think about that did you.
And "Anyone wanna try to beat me down $50? Step right on up"
Amazing you complain about losing $50.00, but then your willing leave $400.00 in the customers pocket.... ( scratching my head, Hmmm, rubbing my chin ) ...nope I will never get it.

The only reason this was unpaid for is because you walked off a job, the $400.00 would have paid for this THAT"S MY POINT. Money offered to you pays for a lot of "stuff" that pops up - Heeeellllooooooo

Grated, but the only way to know this is to make them a CUSTOMER FIRST, then if they are not worth keeping THEN DUMP THEM, but don't dump customers BEFORE they are customers, that doesn't make sense.

Well, Mr Trump, Why are YOU wasting your valuable time with all of us peons? Seems that your magical formula for extreme success would have you working day and night GIVING AWAY all your high quality, low buck workmanship.

You keep throwing around names of business's that HAVE made it. If your formula was so fool-proof, so successful, why don't we know about YOUR Fortune 500 enterprise. Or did you give THAT away too.

You keep bringing up the point of give aways. You give away time. That equates to money for a business. Why is your donating time to a customer any different than not taking a low ball job? It isn't. (Well, actually it IS different. We can earn more money, you can't get that time wasted back again) So we work less time and make the same amount over-all (or maybe MORE), leaving us with time for MORE good paying jobs, or at the very least, more free time. Who's the fool on that one, Mr Tycoon?

Staying busy simply for the sake of staying busy is beyond crazy.

If you're willing to give people something for nothing, generally they'll take it.....And laugh at you all the way to THEIR bank.

As far as your "tutoring" anyone, most of us are inteligent enough to succeed on our own, WITHOUT your vast wealth of knowledge. I've learned a few things reading your comments. First to mind? How to project a public image of a shyster used car saleman, should I ever feel the urge to run a business that way.

I've managed just fine, building a business that doesn't need gimmics and games to attract customers. My "gimmic" is quality work done on time at market prices. I get all the work I want. The general contractor I work for also runs their business that way....for over 150 years. They've made several generations quite wealthy. There's plenty of trash jobs that I walk away from. There's all sorts of contractors that operate like you to pick up those jobs, all the while, doing them for less than I get for good work. Again, I'm just not that desperate for work. I get all I need.

I'd say it WOULD benefit someone if more of us ran our business like you do. It would benefit people like YOU by the rest of us lowering our standards. But we're not ready just yet to stoop down to your level.

Some people just never do get it......

Robert_in_NY · Jun 6, 2007

Kendall69 said:
This is a clear example of a contractor that does what everyone else does and YES will be dumped, for the next "sucker" - BUT it's your job to do it better, faster, neater, be nicer etc.etc. etc. so the customer WILL NOT dump you at any cost. I have customer tell me to my face " we had a guy come in soliciting our business and I wouldn't even talk to him"
THAT"S MY POINT get the customer , take care of the customer, and you build a customer for life. Those of you that get it, hurrah, those that don't - great because your helping the ones that do.

What do you do for a living? In the real world of dealing with people in their homes or on their property it is a tad bit different then dealing with the same people at your place of business. I deal with people everyday between construction and farming. I know first hand that you will never please everyone and some people are not worth dealing with at all. I can tell you the horror stories from some jobs but it isn't worth it. Regardless of how much you do or give some people they will never be happy. These people are not worth dealing with. Yes you do meet some good people who appreciate the work you do but in todays world most people have the Wal-Mart mindset where all they look at is the bottom line and have no loyalty if they can save a dime.

To fault Brian because he refused to take a job is wrong. It is his company, his time and his decision. The people in my line of work who take on every job because you don't turn down work are usually out of work or have a bad reputation as they couldn't keep up with their commitments.