The joys of bidding work

[Farmwithjunk]

I respect LC for holding his ground. I have found out it is more important who I work for than how many people I work for. The less I worked for cheap customers the more time I had for the ones who are willing to pay what I am worth. It can be very counter productive and depressing to spin my wheels and then hot have much to show for it. The people who want a lot for a little were wearing me and my equipment out. I have also found that the ones willing to pay me more and that tip are easyer to work for and much nicer to be around.

I've seen all I need to see to convince me that customers who try to beat you down and/or "get something for nothing" are quick to dump you in favor of the next sucker that'll work for a nickel cheaper. I'd rather have 5 loyal customers who pay well, pay on time, and send me repeat business over 20 wanna-be's with an attitude and no business ethics. I've also learned that the business owners/operators who deal with low-ballers seem to attract more of them and the owner/operators who stick with honest, reputable, and reasonable customers attract more of those types. Fly's are attracted to stink.

 

[MikePA]

Fair prices, equal treatment of ALL customers, and a good job performance is how a strong, successful service oriented business thrives IMHO.

Agreed.

The anti-rich tone of some of the posts in this thread are hard to understand. As if rich people have cornered the market on bad and rude behavior and are the only people looking for a discount.

 

[Dougster]

This is a great thread... and soooooo applicable to what I am going through right now! I'm going to print it all out and study the debate (i.e., should LC have snatched up the $400 or not) very, very carefully!

I got quite an education dealing with potential snowplowing customers this past winter. The bottom line is: The richer they were, the less they wanted to pay. So much for me positioning myself as the upscale "ultra-premium service" for those who could afford it! Turned out my best customers... for what little snow we had... were normal, everyday folks including retired and work-at-home people. Go figure.

I also learned (mostly the hard way) that there is a local benchmark price for just about any homeowner service... and you better know and be at that benchmark price or you are going to either get no business (if slightly too high) or go broke (if slightly too low). The real trick (for me anyway) was how to figure out that benchmark price in a reasonably ethical manner.

The final lesson is to go in smart and understand what your potential customer is all about. I wasted a lot of time giving out formal written quotes and contracts that were just being used to either: a) Verify a current provider's price as reasonable, or b) Get another potential provider to drop his price another $10.00. I had to learn to separate out the real potential customers from those just using me while intending to use someone else all along.

Some lessons have translated well into the "backhoe & landscape assistance" world and others have not. There are clearly new and more complex issues that I didn't have to worry about for snowplowing. No job to be quoted so far has been nearly as straightforward and risk-free as my snowplowing was.

Dougster

 

[1bush2hog]

LoneCowboy -

You made YOUR OWN decision - that is the greatest part about being in business for yourself. Right, wrong, or indifferent, you live with it. Maybe you tried to sell the guy on why he should pay you $450, maybe you didn't. The bottom line is that there is NOTHING wrong with someone asking for a better price, but there is a right way and a wrong way to go about that. Sounds like the guy you were dealing with might have asked you in the wrong way, or maybe there was bad chemistry to begin with

Sounds like you might also be having some second thoughts about walking away? Who is sorry now? Who cares? Forget it and move on. You did what you needed to do and so did he and maybe you both learned something? Did you leave him a business card in case he changed his mind?

It's not easy to sell every potential customer. You will always win some and loose some. That's what business is all about. You do have to know where to draw the line on your rates and stick with it. We all have customers who want a better deal - some do their homework and know the market rates, some are just fishing, and others can be a PIA. I have had customers who try to beat me up on my rates, but I know where my margins are and stick to my guns. I have learned that all business is not necessarily good business as some customers can cost you way more than they are worth. If I'm going to have to work for free, I'd just as soon be fishing

Hope your new TN makes you a lot of $$$.

 

[LoneCowboy]

This has really turned into a good thread.
Lots of what I see is the "how much is this?" phone call and two seconds and they never call back. As someone said above, they are either fishing for prices (not enough details) or looking to beat up their current contractor. I bet the success rate on those is less than 10%. I find that very interesting and wouldn't have expected it. (If you can get the call, you can close it, but not in these types). I've also started to learn instantly upon going to a site you can know if it's going to come through or not. Even my wife has picked up on it. She'll give me the look that says "just write the proposal quickly and let's go, we aren't getting this one".

But, you gotta bid 'em to get 'em.

I learned a long long time ago that some jobs and some customers aren't worth having. That's a real key point that many low ballers miss. In fact I have even told potential customers when they get a lower bid "well, you call me next year when that guy is out of business".

I don't compete on price, someone can always do it cheaper. It's about being on time, being professional, being insured, being able to solve my customers problem. If you want the lowest price, while I'm competative, that's generally not me. I'm not the most expensive either.

Anyway, good thread.

 

[EddieWalker]

I never got the impression that Lone Cowboy did something wrong by turning down the job. He's a one man operation and it wasn't something he wanted to do, or needed to do. If it gets to the point he's turning down allot of jobs, then he's charging too little, but if it's just the jobs that don't apeal to him, he's living the dream.

The money is almost secondary here. It's not about making every nickel possible, but enjoying life and doing what we enjoy. If I was out to make as much as possible, I'd get a degree and change professions. I work when I can, charge what I feel is fair and worthwhile and live a very nice life. If a customer gives me a bad feeling, or the job is going to be one that I'll end up with some bad word of mouth over, I turn it down.

I've had many oportunities for jobs to fix leaky roofs, settling foundations and other impossible to fix things in homes that I wont do. I tell them what they need to do to fix it right, but that I can't do it for them as well as a specialist can. Sometimes I even get calls back from those people because I was straight and honest with them. Sometimes I don't.

Eddie

 

[RedRocker]

And you still need the $400.00. And what you let go was a lot more than $400.00. That's $400.00 PER CUT, per (x) times a year - great that you can afford to let that amount of money go away.

With that $400.00 I could have bought my wife a GREAT anniversary gift,

Sounds like "you" need the $400 dollars, not LC.

 

[MossRoad]

If it was a trailer park neighborhood, the guy had a big beer gut, 3 day growth of beard, a passle of kids running around, a pregnant wife sitting on what's left of a front porch and a major appliance or 2 in his front yard,

Hey! I resemble that remark!

 

[BTI]

One thing I notice in life in general.
The attitude of the heart makes a big difference in everything.
Whether we like it or not.

I've tried to tell my son.....
He's going through the "I can dress how I like,cut my hair how I like etc and people should still accept me" phase of life.

It's correct everyone should accept you for who you are not your posessions,
BUT not everyone can.
Same way with "Beautiful" people (one of which I am not), studies have shown they get preferential treatment.
Just a fact of life.

I try but as bad as I hate to say it, I'm not perfect.

To the point at hand, I've been on both sides of the fence (deal maker and dealer). I have to say I'm really not a fan of either LOL.

LoneCowboy did what he had to do and so did the customer.

I know he wasn't gonna have to work for free....
BUT as an old buddy of mine has told me many times.....
"Work for free and you'll always be busy"

We all have lines to draw.

BTI

 

[MossRoad]

So, We're out today bushhogging. it's a long way away, I probably barely break even on the mowing, but I"ll make out ok when seeding, etc in the fall and spring. (everybody mows, you can't charge more than everyone else).

so, finishing up and loading the big mower (little mower is already loaded) and the guy next door comes over. Hey, want to take a look at mine. I look around, he shows me stuff, I say "Today, right now, no stuff price is $450".

As a customer, I'm thinking, What? This guy says "Today, right now, no stuff price is $450". Is he gonna charge me more tomorrow? Sounds like he wants to deal, so I'm gonna deal, too. So I ask...

"Well, what about $400?"

I already discounted. It's sunday, I don't like to work on Sunday, I'm tired, this isn't an easy place to do, it's all on a hill and it has ditches everywhere, I think $450 is an excellent price.

How do I, the customer know any of that?

So, I tell you I'll have my wife write you a check right now for $400, no billing involved so you get your money and don't have to bill me etc... and you reply with....

ok, but the instant I load that tractor it goes to $500, your choice, here's my card, you decide.

As a customer, I think, "He gave me a price, I made a counter offer, and he raises the price. YIKES! What a jerk."

I ask if you'll come down a bit and instead of explaining why you won't you threaten to leave. As a customer, I'm glad you're leaving.