The Objective Superiority of JD in 32-46 HP

[radman]

Actually, Nebraska do not include any Kubota tractors in their tests. Kubota does not sell any tractors in Nebr. other than compacts. Nebr. rules require testing of all tractors (except compact tractors) prior to being sold in Nebr. I was told each model from a manufacturer needed to be tested to prove HP, safety and other stats before sales are allowed. You wont find any Kubotas larger than the 4610 in NE unless sold out of state. JD, Case-IH, New Holland and Ford dominate the AG industry in this state. It is not worth the thousands of dollars for Kubota to test each model above the compact series when the sales will be small.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Only tractors over 40 hp must be tested before sale is allowed in the State of Nebraska.

The manufacturer pays on a sliding scale basis depending on hp, starting @ $16,000 per tractor test.

Nebraska Tractor Testing

 

[gvw]

Glen - re your comments of concern re the JD Hydrostatic trans - Having utilized both the Orange and Green (No Blue) I can assure you that the JD 4700 w/ Hydro is wonderfull and I am glad to advise that when utilized as a loader, with lots of back and forth motion it is a dream to behold - not sure where you came up with the "Jerkiness" and all that other negative stuff but I wouldn't trade mine for anything.
Furthermore, the one issue that has been missed in this most interesting discussion is PARTS & REPAIR. We can tout all the literature and Videos while pounding chests for personal brand superiorty (Note: no one has ever had a bad pickup, tractor, dog, or significant other until the day it was sold or gone) but actully working and repairing the machine if need should be a major component of concern. I will clain total iggnorance on the Blue issue relating to parts and repair. However, I avoided the Orange big time when it was down to the final choice for this very issue. I had converstions with several high end (comercial type users) that were very negative to the Orange parts supply as they had experienced serious down time - in some cases several months - and were major league agitated. I also discussed the parts issue with an retired Orange mechanic that quite honestly said he loved the Orange machines until they had an Oh -Oh confirming what I had been told earlier. One can compare the video and literature all you want -- however, the proof is in the utilization of the machine for what it is intended and the abiity to continue using it on an ongoing basis.
I realize this may be a bit out side the "rules" of this thread but should be included in the discussion.

 

[toddler]

As an orange lover, I've been following this post with some amusement. The most objective factors for me were price vs performance. In my area, the JD4200 was almost $3000 more than my B2710 with MMM, and FEL. The 4100 was only a few hundred less.

I think that in a strait HP to HP comparison, JD may have the best specs, but that's a lousy way to do a comparison. Nobody compares cars or trucks based on the engine HP, they compare by price, or type (sports car to sports car). HP might be the wrong way to do a comparison here, since clearly the 4200 is a bigger tractor than my B2710. I'd compare it to the L3010, because for me they cost the same. Richard is the only person who seems to be able to get JD for less than Kubota in equivalent HP range. And even ignoring that, does getting more lift per HP mean the tractor is better if you can get more HP and lift for the same price in a different brand. Maybe one that hasn't had the reliability issues.

If I were a commercial user where a day of down time meant a significant loss of income, I might have a JD, or even more likely a NH. JD parts are always available and our local NH dealer gives out a loaner to commercial users who bring in equipment for repairs. Still, only serious advantage I see to JD over Kubota is ergonomics, and NH has them beat there. But hey, that's VERY subjective, kind of like comparing one size of Levi's jeans to a different size in Wrangler. Now that JD has worked out most of their bugs, they're clearly in the running, but OBJECTIVELY superior??? Pick a $ value and a general need, compare what you can buy from each company, their reliability, comfort, performance, (not just lift, but turning radius, stability, pulling power, noise, vibration, effort of controls, durability....) Get's more confusing than a dealer video wants you to think. Then pick your toy. Me, no regrets so far, and although not having to clutch to start/stop the PTO might be nice, it's not 3K nice.
Enjoy your toys, there's no such thing as objective here.
Todd /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[cowboydoc]

I think that in a strait HP to HP comparison, JD may have the best specs, but that's a lousy way to do a comparison. Nobody compares cars or trucks based on the engine HP, they compare by price, or type (sports car to sports car).

Todd,
I respectfully disagree with you. With regards to hp and what can this unit do that's where I'm putting my money. That was what I was looking for when I was looking for a compact. Did the compact have enough hp to do the jobs that I needed it to do? Could I use my baler, could I move round bales, would it hold up to all of my existing equipment. The hp was the main force behind my decision to get the tractor that I did. With regards to cars, especially pickups my money is on the truck that has the most torque and hp to get my trailers towed from point a to point b. Surely other things come into play but the engine is the #1 priority when I'm looking. Yes price comes into play but I would definitely pay more for more hp. I've got to have the ponies to get my work done.

 

[Knight9]

Richard,

I think to fully get Todd's comment you need to include his statement <font color=blue>The most objective factors for me were price vs performance.</font color=blue>

I believe he is saying that you can't do a straight hp to hp comparison without considering the cost associated. When I was looking at tractors I actually did a $/hp ratio to determine what I was getting for my dollar. Like Todd, the JD was far more costly/hp in my area. Can't ignore $$$ when looking at hp! /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif I completely agree that you don't want to "under power" yourself and limit what you can do. But if I'm pricing 26 hp to 26 hp and the price is $3000 difference....guess who win!!

Kevin

 

[cowboydoc]

That makes sense Kevin and I can buy that. If that's the case Todd ignore what I said. I did the same thing when I made my purchase. It still puzzles me that deere is so much more expensive everywhere else and Kubota is so expensive here. But then again in a hundred mile radius from where I live there are only a handful of kubota dealers and there is literally a jd dealer in every town.

 

[glennmac]

gvw comments that he likes the hydro on his 4700. And I had a new experience today that causes me to believe him.

On my way to work today I was thinking about my "negative" comments on the JD hydro. It occurred to me that I had only driven JD hydro midframes (4200-4400) and had never driven a large frame (4600-4700). So I swung into the JD dealership (saw Nick's brand new 4300 in for repair--had his name on a tag), and asked to drive a 4600 hydro.

Before I got on the tractor, the dealer stopped me and said that you are going find that this hydro is "smoother" than the one on the midframes--it is "less jerky". (These are his words and I had never shared with him my impression of the midframe hydro.) He also said that I would notice that less pedal pressure is required. He finally said that starting from still on the midframe, you have to press and press the pedal until the hydro finally kicks in--whereas on the large frame the hyro feathers in smoothly.

Then I drove it. His description was completely accurate.

I now hereby amend my impression of the JD hydro. For the midframe models (4200-4400) I stand by my impression of herky-jerkiness and too-stiff pedal pressure. For the large frames (4600-4700) the pedal pressure requirement is less and the hyro is much smoother. Still not quite as good as Kubota in my opinion, but much closer.

The dealer said he has never gotten a good explanation from Deere as to why there is hydro difference between midframe and large frame--but there is on all machines he has sold.

 

[glennmac]

Todd,

I agree that when one gets to final decision time, price vs. performance must be weighed. It is my experience, however, that many, if not most, new buyers of tractors understand very well the relative prices they're being asked to pay but much less about the relative performance differences between the tractors. In order to weigh price/performance, you have to know what the performance is. And performance is a lot more than just horsepower.

That is one of the motivating factors behind this thread: to try to sort out the performance wheat and chaff between brands to the extent we can. Another thing that motivated me was the general feeling one gets here that JD is higher priced, if not over priced. It occurred to me that if JD is priced higher, maybe there is more performance being offered by Deere. As I investigated these larger compacts, which I hadnt done before, I began to hypothesize that JD does in fact offer more bang for their more buck.

That's when I first posted. We'll see where it ends up.

 

[toddler]

Richard,
Kevin did have my point correct, and yours are valid too. I'll make you a bet, however, that there's one capability that is way more important than HP and Torque! You know what that is if you've ever gone down a long hill with a trailer behind you/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif!!

My brother in law is driving up tomorrow with a 30+foot trailer behind his F350 diesel, and you can bet that going up our little VT hills isn't a big issue. Have you seen the F650 Cruzer. Air Brakes!

Boy do I wish JD and Kubota were close in price for equal HP around here. Much as I hate the plastic fenders, I love the green and yellow. Since I'm not worried about a passing Deer /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif running into me in that back yard, can't say I actually benefit from the Kubota "safety" orange. JD's just look better in the green fields! And that is of course my totally objective opinion.

Glennmac,
Simple Price vs Performance in my area clearly goes to Kubota. But that's just HP:$. When you factor in things like parts and service, ergonomics, or performance per HP, it becomes a what's best for you question, which is why no one compact brand dominates in this area.

When somebody enters a what tractor is best for me post on this site, nobody asks how many HP do you want, they ask what do you want to do, where do you want to do it, how much can you or do you want to spend... I can argue the superiority of the B2710 over the 4200 and vice versa all day. And I'm not even an attorney.
Which one would you like to argue for?/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif
Todd