The Path to 9/11

[hilld]

Just because we know there is a terrorist, we don't drop the bombs unless we can make sure the "collateral damage" such as kids or innocent civilians won't be hurt or killed. This higher standard sets us apart from the terrorists, if we just started bombing places because a terrorist might or might not be there, it makes us no different than the people that want to inflict maximum damage without regard for innocent people.

I probably will get flamed for this, but we consider us a society with strong beliefs for human rights and higher moral standards and yes, sometimes those standards get in the way of the quick way of doing something. We complain when the Chinese torture their people, but look the other way when our CIA does the same thing. Sounds like a double standard to me.

Derek

 

[MikePA]

Just because we know there is a terrorist, we don't drop the bombs unless we can make sure the "collateral damage" such as kids or innocent civilians won't be hurt or killed.

The movie, as well as the 9/11 report, made it clear the information was very good that UBL was there in almost every opportunity we had in the 90s. Additionally, our reluctance to inflict "collateral damage" during the 90s resulted in 3,000 "collateral deaths" on 9/11. When our enemies deliberately locate in civilian areas, the "collateral deaths" are their fault, not ours. Anyone who supports our enemy is our enemy, e.g., civilians who worked at ball bearing plants, aircraft plants, tank plants, in WWII Germany.

 

[RedRocker]

We complain when the Chinese torture their people, but look the other way when our CIA does the same thing. Sounds like a double standard to me.

Derek

WOW, this is the first I've heard of the CIA torturing "our" people!!!
What Americans have they tortured?

 

[SkyPup]

WOW, this is the first I've heard of the CIA torturing "our" people!!!
What Americans have they tortured?

He's probably referring to Zacarias Moussaoui and his trial and conviction, although he may be referring to the Blind Shiek Rahman trial. It was torture for them to be forced through the American Criminal Justice system when they preferred to be tried by Shia law instead since they were both Islamic terrorists.....

 

[Chuck52]

The movie, as well as the 9/11 report, made it clear the information was very good that UBL was there in almost every opportunity we had in the 90s. Additionally, our reluctance to inflict "collateral damage" during the 90s resulted in 3,000 "collateral deaths" on 9/11. When our enemies deliberately locate in civilian areas, the "collateral deaths" are their fault, not ours. Anyone who supports our enemy is our enemy, e.g., civilians who worked at ball bearing plants, aircraft plants, tank plants, in WWII Germany.

OK. So the idea is that the "intelligence" about OBL was "good", but the "intelligence" about Iraq and ******, which was the basis for attacking a country which had nothing to do with 9/11, was "bad". Sounds as if the quality and value of "intelligence" is subject to variable interpretation, depending perhaps upon the mindset of he who is doing the interpreting?

Since Iraq was not involved in the 9/11 attack, as even GWB finally admits, do all the Iraqi casualties inflicted by our forces still fall within your acceptable "collateral deaths" definition, including any civilians not working in the (yet another WWII analogy) defense industries? Does this only apply to us, and maybe Israel?

It's not just "who we are" and our "freedom" that buys us enemies. IT IS WHAT WE DO! If our bombs kill someone's children do you really think they care why we were bombing? Kill the enemy. Kill his women, children and parents.....and anyone else in the immediate vicinity. Sounds downright Biblical, or maybe Koranical.

If this is not a political discussion, what constitutes a poilical discussion?

Chuck

 

[hilld]

WOW, this is the first I've heard of the CIA torturing "our" people!!!
What Americans have they tortured?

While nothing can be confirmed, there have been at least 3 American's categorized as "enemy compatants" and they have been moved to Guantanamo and "stripped of their rights of American citizens".

They were:
Esam Hamadi
Jose Padilla
John Philip Walker Lindh (The American Taliban)

I am in no way or shape advocating that we are going to be soft on these people, however, we cannot just throw out our constitution, our beliefs and human rights, because of they way they are treating us. Yes, I can see that people are upset about their methods, but if this is the way militias operate. We used to do it against the British over 200 years ago, by changing the way war used to be faught, by ambushing the much stronger and superior equipped militaries.

On ABC news after the movie, there was a commentary about how to stop the radical islamic movement and one suggestion was that we fight the propaganda war in the Arab world, which according to Richard Clarke (the expert) we are not doing and that is where the support of our American way of life is lost.

Derek

 

[gsganzer]

one suggestion was that we fight the propaganda war in the Arab world, which according to Richard Clarke (the expert) we are not doing and that is where the support of our American way of life is lost.

Derek

How about we start by fighting the propaganda war against the folks in Hollywood and the liberal media who choose to only air the news and shows that supports their agenda?

 

[dmccarty]

While nothing can be confirmed, there have been at least 3 American's categorized as "enemy compatants" and they have been moved to Guantanamo and "stripped of their rights of American citizens".

They were:
Esam Hamadi
Jose Padilla
John Philip Walker Lindh (The American Taliban)

Hamadi was captured by the Northern Alliance and shipped to Gitmo. He lived in Saudi Arabia since he was a child having been born in Louisianna to Saudi parents. Once it was discovered that he as a US citizen he was sent to the US. His case has been sent to the federal courts including the Supreme Court. That is not the same as being sent to Gitmo and stripped of his rights. He has since left the US, renounced his US citizenship, and lives in the country that is pretty obvious is his own. While he may have been born in the US certainly by his actions he was NOT a US citizen.

Jose Padilla does not appear to have been sent to Gitmo but has been in VA and now FL since his arrest/detention. Again his case has been all over the courts. Given his background and what he was up to it seem reasonable for the Government and Courts to fight over how to handle him. In the past he simply would have been hanged for what he was attempting to do.

I can also find no evidence and from memory I don't remember Jihad Johnny ever going to Gitmo. He hid his US citizenship when captured by the Northern Alliance and admitted to being a member of the Tailiban and Al Queida. He is now in a prision in CA after freely admitting his guilt.

I just don't see the end of US Civil Liberties based on what these three men did and what has happened to them. They certainly where working for the enemy. We could also call them traitors.

I am in no way or shape advocating that we are going to be soft on these people, however, we cannot just throw out our constitution, our beliefs and human rights, because of they way they are treating us. Yes, I can see that people are upset about their methods, but if this is the way militias operate. We used to do it against the British over 200 years ago, by changing the way war used to be faught, by ambushing the much stronger and superior equipped militaries.

While the US Revolutionary War was very bloody, most especially in the South, it was not a strategy to kill as many civilians as possible. Certainly Terrorists targeting US forces in Iraq and Afganistan is "legal" but they earn the title Terrorists when as a matter of choice they kill innocent people. That was NOT a matter of policy during the US Revolution and is not even close to a valid comparison.

On ABC news after the movie, there was a commentary about how to stop the radical islamic movement and one suggestion was that we fight the propaganda war in the Arab world, which according to Richard Clarke (the expert) we are not doing and that is where the support of our American way of life is lost.

I don't know how ABC or Clarke could say the US is not fighting the propaganda war since the US is doing so. But its a long uphill battle when a large number of people in the free world simple dont get it. When statements by leaders all through society as well as movies are made against fightng terror they help the terrorists. Appeasement is easy. And its alive and well in the current century...

Later,
Dan

 

[EddieWalker]

Richard Clarke currenlty works for ABC news. He came out of this movie like some sort of all seeing genius. I wonder what his relationship to ABC had to do with how he was protrayed in the movie.

He's been telling so many stories about how he knew ***** was gonna do this and the attacks were gonna happen like it's the truth. The fact is that when clinton left office, they gave the new president a memo on world threats. This memo is twenty something pages long and it never mentions *****. I find if very hard to take richard clarke seriously when he failed to even mention to the incoming president the name of the biggest threat to the country.

If there is any glaring mistakes in the show, it was the park richard clarke played in trying to stop the terrorists. He didn't do anything for 8 years under clinton, but blames bush because they didn't listen to him in the 8 months before 9/11. It's just silly.

Eddie

 

[turbo36]

We have been terrorized for along time.Remember sky jackings,cruise ship hijackings,Klinghoffer and others?No one has done anything till now,and we're still not doing enough.We are in the fight of our lives and I think it will get much worse.I for one will not watch that stupid movie.The situation is too serious for me to get my information from the entertainment industry.It's hard to even trust the news media for all the facts.(Dan Rather?I'd rather not.)

Yeah that Dan rather is such a lier and information manipulator! He should be more like Rush because we all know he always tells the truth! (Well except for a little illegal drug use and felony doctor shopping) and certainly would not manipulate the facts to back up his mindless rants.