The price of osb And boards!

[dnw64]

Did you consider that for those of us growing trees we often have "surplus" that we need to get rid of.

No, I didn't consider anything. I simply asked a question that could be answered objectively. If you choose to analyze subjectively, that is your prerogative.

I haven't milled very many tons of lumber with my Woodmizer but I have a constant supply of trees I have to cut down just in the process of making and maintaining trails.

Even to just let them rot I have to put in labor to get them out of the way. The slight extra labor to drag them to my mill and process them is minor compared to my having to drive 40 miles to buy a piece of lumber.

The fact remains, that if you can mill them into quality lumber, anyone can. And therefore the timber has cash value. I simply asked if you considered that value. If you wish to ignore it, it makes no difference to me. Just trying to lend a perspective.

Lastly, milling logs into air dried rough lumber is 2-3 steps short of what most would consider useable stock for anything other than rough framing. So, a lot depends on what you intend to do with the material. Surely you can drive 40 miles to get KD material a lot faster than waiting for a freshly sawn2x to dry...

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Pine 2x4's will air dry down to usable use, in about a month to 6 weeks...

Store bought lumber takes on moisture from the moment it leaves the kiln and ends up at about the same moisture content as mine, after sitting around a while waiting to be sold.

SR

 

[dnw64]

Store bought lumber takes on moisture from the moment it leaves the kiln and ends up at about the same moisture content as mine, after sitting around a while waiting to be sold.

I suppose that may depend on where you live and what season it is.

If we are talking about construction grade lumber (indicated by your mention of "pine" 2x4s - BTW we never get pine here - always spruce), KD is generally 15-19% MC. In almost all areas of the country and all seasons, EMC is going to be 12% or less. So in fact, it will most likely be drying when sitting on the shelf. Again, with rare exceptions it will be wetter than that and it will pick up moisture.

I don't know how you are drying your lumber, or measuring the MC. The general rule of thumb is 1 year per inch. While I can see pine being quicker, even if your lumber is "useable" in 4-6 weeks, I simply don't believe that it's 19% or less in 4-6 weeks. Even still, I would think anyone who can't drive 40 miles and back in 4-6 weeks has other things to worry about.

 

[TnAndy]

Did you factor in:

*The value of the standing timber

You bet.....standing timber sold brings very little, even if you're sharp enough to know it's value (much of it is nearly stolen outright from clueless landowners). Average mixed softwood/hardwood sale here might bring a smart owner 200mbf....20 cents/bdft. So, say I sold my timber for that. Then I'd have to pay capital gains taxes on it....15-20% reduction in my gross, plus I have to put up with the mess the loggers leave, AND hope I get an honest one.

Then, if I go buy framing lumber, I'm gonna pay 50-75 cents/bdft + 9.75% sales tax (here in TN), PLUS I'm buying that lumber with after tax money, so add another 20-25% to the actual cost for the taxes that have to be paid on the income earned to go buy lumber.

SO.....sell it on the stump....maybe 18 cents/ft. Buy it at the store....60 cents + 9.75% +20% = 78 cents/ft.

We got 60 cents/bdft differential before factoring anything else.


Those are average figures, it could work out a little better, or worse depending on your tax situation....for example, my income (self employed) was ALL taxed at 28% federal + 15.3% SS (my wife's income put every dollar I earned into the 28% bracket)....so I had to earn nearly a dollar and a half to have a dollar to buy FRAMING lumber !

Now, the number get WAY better when we start talking good grades of hardwood lumber. I won't even compare the $3/bdft Home Depot gets for yellow poplar, or the $6/bd ft they get for red oak ( I snicker every time I walk past the stuff). Green, FAS red oak sells for 90 cents/bf.....kiln dried ( it costs me 5 cents/bf in my homemade kiln)
you'll pay $1.40/bf. Those are bulk order, wholesale prices. Plug that in with the taxes, and difference in home harvest versus buying approaches a dollar/bf easy....which explains the red oak cabinets, doors, casing, etc in my house....ahahaaaa

*The capital investment to harvest said timber

Not a huge amount. Already own the tractor for farm work. The chainsaw does logging duty, but also supplies my heating fuel, so I'm not sure exactly how I'd assign the cost there. About the only specialized tool I bought is a skidding winch for $2k. So not a huge investment.

You didn't ask about the capital investment to turn the logs into lumber....aka, the sawmill. Well, I paid 15k for my Woodmizer new in 1991. Maintenance along the way has been pretty minimal, biggest ongoing costs are gasoline and blades. Without going into the numbers too deep here, I figured my costs along the way at 5 cents/bf assuming I cut a million board feet over the life of the mill, and assuming it had zero scrap value at the end of my using it....that included fuel and blades. I'm approaching that million board foot mark after 26 years, and the numbers are actually a little better than 5 cents/ft.

*Value of labor to harvest said timber

The labor is my own....I suppose I could be fishing in a bass tournament, but I'm much rather work around my place.
More on this in a moment.

*Value of labor to mill said timber

Again, same as above.

But let's look a little deeper. Let's say I selectively cut my timber and harvest 5,000bf of lumber a year from my own property. There have been years I cut way more than that. Late 90's, the Southern Pine Beetle was ravaging our white and yellow pines here....market was flooded, you could give them away....so that $200/mbf was closer to zero. I cut every thing I had the time to cut for a year, and built 3 rental homes out of it. (value adding to the value of the lumber).

But just 5,000bf per year. 5 days to log it out, 8-10 days to cut it. Average value to me after sawn, say 80 cents (soft and hard wood).....not adding any value by building stuff with it....just the lumber alone. $4,000 worth of lumber for 15 days work = $266/day, gross, or 33 bucks/hr.

Beats delivering pizza.

But the value added is the real money...

I've built my own home, many barns/sheds here, a lot of cabinets (for other folks) and lot of moldings/trim/etc....adding value to the lumber BECAUSE I had a good source of cheap lumber. My best guess is that mill has made me $250-300,000....and that much again if I every sell my place.

I'd tell anyone, if you own a decent amount of timbered property, a small bandmill is one tool that will flat make you money.

 

[SirReal63]

The thing with the 15-19% kiln dried figure. That figure is for the entire kiln charge at the mill, not individual sticks of lumber. Some of them may be much drier and some much wetter, (depending on location in the kiln and wood density), it is the average of the kiln charge, kiln charge is the total space in the kiln, averaged, not the wood itself. As it works out, the majority of that wood will be close to the charge number, but not all of it.

The good news is the wood will continue to reach atmospheric equilibrium, whether on the racks at the lumberyard or in your framed walls.

As far as air dried lumber goes, we got a hefty premium for air dried SYP, it was far more dimensionally stable, but it was a killer on the cash flow.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I suppose that may depend on where you live and what season it is.

If we are talking about construction grade lumber (indicated by your mention of "pine" 2x4s - BTW we never get pine here - always spruce), KD is generally 15-19% MC. In almost all areas of the country and all seasons, EMC is going to be 12% or less. So in fact, it will most likely be drying when sitting on the shelf. Again, with rare exceptions it will be wetter than that and it will pick up moisture.

I don't know how you are drying your lumber, or measuring the MC. The general rule of thumb is 1 year per inch. While I can see pine being quicker, even if your lumber is "useable" in 4-6 weeks, I simply don't believe that it's 19% or less in 4-6 weeks. Even still, I would think anyone who can't drive 40 miles and back in 4-6 weeks has other things to worry about.

ALL 2x4's around here (in lumber yards) are SPF, they could be any of the three. spruce, pine, fir... ALL PT lumber here is SYP, southern yellow pine...

I "alr dry" my lumber, 4 to 6 weeks will get me down to 19 to 20% (on average) Store bought lumber almost ALWAYS is 15 to 20% when I check it, I have a good quality moisture meter...

The one year per inch is repeated over and over, it just isn't true in most cases, but you can believe what ever you want... lol (for softwood)

Lumber sit's outside here, OR buildings that are in the open air, and pretty much everyplace but desert area's, lumber will end up at 20% if left long enough... I've got lumber here of all ages up to 20 years old, checking them proves what I said...

I've been doing this a long time, so I'm not spewing out what "I read" some place, it's what I've experienced for myself...

SR

 

[downsizingnow48]

I sure like those porch timbers.

 

[newbury]

<snip>

I "alr dry" my lumber, 4 to 6 weeks will get me down to 19 to 20% (on average) Store bought lumber almost ALWAYS is 15 to 20% when I check it, I have a good quality moisture meter...

The one year per inch is repeated over and over, it just isn't true in most cases, but you can believe what ever you want... lol (for softwood)

Lumber sit's outside here, OR buildings that are in the open air, and pretty much everyplace but desert area's, lumber will end up at 20% if left long enough... I've got lumber here of all ages up to 20 years old, checking them proves what I said...

I've been doing this a long time, so I'm not spewing out what "I read" some place, it's what I've experienced for myself...

SR

Now your just bringing actual facts to argue against theory.

Y<snip>
I'd tell anyone, if you own a decent amount of timbered property, a small bandmill is one tool that will flat make you money.

I think for anyone that has to harvest trees over 15" DBH because they are in the way a small bandmill is just another good tool to have, especially if you have no use for firewood.

My Woodmizer LT 10 for $3K cost less than many other attachments we buy for our tractors.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I sure like those porch timbers.

Here's my buddies cabin with the porch, the porch is something like 160' long!

Here's what the 6x10"-20' beams, and 3x8"-16' rafters look like in place,

I also milled out all the 5/4 T&G you see on the roof...

I cut down the tree's,

cut out the logs,

skid them all out,

hauled all the logs to the mill site, (one of MANY loads)

AND washed them clean with a high volume water before milling,

SR

 

[newbury]

<snip>

I cut down the tree's, cut out the logs, hauled all the logs to the mill site, (one of MANY loads)

AND washed them clean with a high volume water before milling,

SR

You must have been a lot younger back then