"The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices."

   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #11  
Maybe someone can correct me... but, I thought the reason gas costs 2 to 3 times more in Europe is because it is Taxed much more over there?
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #12  
From what I've read the gas in the EU costs more because it's taxed very heavily. The taxes are used for road repair and construction.
They pay the same per barrel as we do.

Regardless of the price of gasoline I've always conserved energy. Cars that get better gas mileage and houses that use less energy are what interests me.
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #13  
ultrarunner said:
Maybe someone can correct me... but, I thought the reason gas costs 2 to 3 times more in Europe is because it is Taxed much more over there?

Gas is taxed at higher rates than in the US. But there are quite a few people talking about raising our taxes on fuel so that we will drive less or buy cars with better milage. People might buy a new car for the mpg but it sure is not going to stop people from driving. And how much money/fuel is used to build a car?... Most people don't have a choice regarding the miles they drive.

I sure don't see car prices being the same today as back in the 90's. My 1990 Dakota cost 13K. The 1995 Chevy full size 4x4, extended cab, diesel, and 5 speed was 27K. My 2002 Ford F350 was 37K. A similar Ford today is over 50K! From 1995 onwards that is a 10-11% price rise per year. Inflation in that time was/is very low. Small fuel efficient car seem to have held their price but they are loss leaders and are made because of Federal mandates on milage.

The refinery business is a low margin one. Not a lot of money to be made percentage wise. Recently the margins have gone up though. I can understand a company not wanting to open a new refinery. Where are they going to be able to put it without the evironmentalists having a fit? I live in a county with a lot of "environmentalists". They protest the nuke plant to our east that provides a lot of power for this area. I think if they are so against nuke power they should unplug from the grid. This would be a good time of year for them to do so. Then maybe they might like nuke power.
The nuke plant has or was going to have a low level waste dump. The plant is built on a huge chunk of land that even now is pretty much out in the middle of no where though that is changing. The waste was mainly going to be from xray machines and such. But the environmentalists raised a stink. Personally I want to be able to get xrays when they are needed. I want my kids to be able to get one. The dump was/is reasonably located and safe. But these people are all about Chicken Littlism. I'm sure they did not get dental or medical xrays after all that isc onsumption and would add to the problem. Yeah Right.

People complain about high gas prices for some reason. But buy bottled water that has huge profits margins and most bottle water is just treated tab water. Nobody complains to Pepsi and Coke about their margins. The soda companies certainly have low risk pumping out bottled water compared to looking for oil.

The big oil companies are loosing money dealing with Russia and Venezuala. Both countries are taking over the local oil companies and fields. Which is costing the oil companies billions. And it will cost us as well as the confiscated oil fields loose production due to incompitence. This is already happening in Chavez land where many of the oil workers have left the country.

People don't look at WHAT they get when they buy fuel.

I spend about $200 a month of fuel for the truck. Before the higher prices it was about $100 a month. $200 a month gets me peace and quiet. It keeps the idiot neighbors far away. I don't get wakened up at night when my drunk neighbor drives home. Or when he played loud music. Had a party. Set off fireworks at 2:00 in the morning. If I was still back in the "city" I would have been up most of Weds night due to the inconsiderate idiots setting off fireworks.

This past week I cut down and cut up three large trees that had died. Looks like at least a cord or two of wood. It cost me about $1 in gas and oil for the chainsaw. Moving the logs took three hours, so maybe $7. 5 hours of work cost me $8 in fuel. The logs I could barely lift myself or not at all. I had to roll them to the tractor since the trees where in the septic field and that is a No Go Zone for the JD. The work I did was most certainly worth hundreds of dollars if I had to do it by hand. It would have taken me days to move the wood by hand. And it had to be moved UPHILL. I would have paid quite a bit of money to move those logs moved by machine. $8 was a steal even when the fuel is around $3 a gallon.

I certainly don't want to pay more for gas but neither do I want to pay more on my mortage, vehicle prices, food, insurance, power, etc. I'm more woried about my health bills than fuel bills. One I can control. The other I cannot.

Later,
Dan
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #14  
I am no expert, just guy from Indiana, who is currently being surrounded by Ethanol Refineries. I don't believe many will be around for long, but they are going up. Perhaps someone more in the know than me, can comment on why Ethanol refineries can be approved, but oil refineries can't? Are there cost differences in building, not related to government subsidies?
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #15  
HC-80 said:
I am no expert, just guy from Indiana, who is currently being surrounded by Ethanol Refineries. I don't believe many will be around for long, but they are going up. Perhaps someone more in the know than me, can comment on why Ethanol refineries can be approved, but oil refineries can't? Are there cost differences in building, not related to government subsidies?
I'm sure it's all about the subsidies. Could be lower environmental impact.
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #16  
And don't forget inflation, by most measures, gasoline today costs about the same as in the mid 70's.

Mike
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #17  
How much crude can we use, verses, how much can be easily pumped? Heck, in the fifties Texas had plenty, now?.. Seems to me with China and India using more and more, Oil companies going to extremely dangerous drilling locations to get less then a year or two operation, the combinded signs are telling us something about the future of petroleum energy. Can there be more than twenty years of cheap oil? Ya know cheap as in less than $20.00 a gallon.
As big as the earth is, I find it hard to believe that fossil fuel is an endless supply, I truly believe that if our leaders knew exactly how much was left, I believe they would lie to themselves and us to keep the "friendship" of big oil, and the supply of donations coming. Too much glass half full equals rude awakening.
I feel this generation of people are raping the earth and squandering our future generations inheritance. Too much scr@w everything else, gemme, gemme, I want mine now!
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #18  
irwin said:
I feel this generation of people are raping the earth and squandering our future generations inheritance. Too much scr@w everything else, gemme, gemme, I want mine now!
I completely disagree.

This generation does more to clean up its messes than any previous generation. Want an example, look at how strip mining used to leave the land and how it reclaims it now. Claiming the current generation is simply buying into the fear mongering some people are using to make people think something has to be done now which is usually tied to more government intervention.
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #19  
Markets in the United States for virtually EVERYTHING is now --- more than ever --- dominated and determined by global economic factors.

The current generation, unlike my generation or the previous generation before the "boomers" will have to think globally and act locally. Previously, economic plans undertaken by corporations and government were based almost solely upon what market forces were at play within the US shorelines. No longer...

Energy is huge and vital and strategic and can change the social matrirx of the planet! (When leadership of either or any politcal party speaks of the "American way of life.... in reference to Iraq or Iran or terrorism.... think ENERGY!)

That said, we have not had an informed, public deliberation of the new global realities of energy and what the future may bring. In short, no vision and no leadership from either major party.

The country faces as big a challange with the future of energy as it did in World War II or the Great Depression!

This nation should be looking at ALL energy options --- Subsidies, tax incentives, research grants to move us forward.

And like the Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) during the Depression and the thousands of projects they completed across the country or the construction of mega hydroelectic dam projects during that time and then later the building of the InterState Highway system or going to the moon -- cooperative (government and business) efforts to develop "homegrown" sources of energy should be in the top five list of things "to do" that our political leaders work towards.

So, instead of beating up on the oil companies for excessive profits and slamming the environmentalists for costing us all more at the pump...

Maybe we should all step back a little and see if we can get our heads around a whole lot bigger picture and put some heat on folk's to do something besides trying to shore up and police every darn tin horn country on the face of the globe!

Thanks for the chance to REALLY rant!!!

AKfish
 
   / "The reality is that [US] consumers are willing to pay high prices." #20  
MikePA said:
I completely disagree.

This generation does more to clean up its messes than any previous generation. Want an example, look at how strip mining used to leave the land and how it reclaims it now. Claiming the current generation is simply buying into the fear mongering some people are using to make people think something has to be done now which is usually tied to more government intervention.

Sorry Mike: you're right, I got alittle hyperbole happening there, however I do believe oil reserves are a lot smaller then most people think...really would like to believe our leaders would be honest about what they do concerning energy, and what they do to potecting oil. Most likely they think we're not smart enough to handle the truth.:rolleyes:
 

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