The Standard Newbie Question...

OffBalance · Jan 31, 2005

Which tractor should I buy? /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif

OK, OK. I know that is a dangerous thing to ask here without filling in all the details...

First, about my property: I own 5 acres about 30 miles NE of Seattle. The property is sloped down to a creek at the bottom (the creek is actually in a ravine, so I won't be going down there with a tractor, and I don't want to disturb it anyway). There are some flat places on the property, and there are some very sloped parts. I have about one acre cleared around the house, about 500' x 10' strip to mow beside the road (still too rough for a finishing mower, I think), and the rest is forest (last logged about 1954, so it has some rather large red cedar, big-leaf maple and hemlock trees). The most serious slope is steep enough that my neighbor used to be very, very careful and go in slowest gear straight down when he mowed it for me with a brush hog behind his very old 2WD FarmAll (yes he moved, and yes, he sold the tractor to someone else down the road a ways).

Second, about what I will be doing: When we bought the property, the house had not been completed, and the landscaping had not been started at all. We are completing the landscaping, including retaining walls, gravel paths, sheds, garden beds, etc. etc. etc. I intend to use the tractor for moving large amounts of material - gravel, compost and topsoil, mowing the strip near the road, grading the driveway, hauling brush, clearing some areas in the woods (including a little dozing), removing extremely invasive Himalayan Blackberry patches (Himalayan blackberries grow 10 feet tall on their own, even higher if climbing up trees, and have canes about as big as my wrist, and up to 1/2" thorns, with so-so tasting berries), and maybe rototilling some garden areas. I have considered the following implements: FEL, bush hog, tiller, chipper/shredder, box blade, and eventually a BH (well, maybe if I get that job at Microsoft...).

Third, about me: I am an engineer, and I like well-engineered tools. I really appreciate things that work well and are reliable. I like to get outside and work, especially since I spend all day indoors in front of a computer. Growing up, I spent my summers on my grandfather's tree farm in Oregon. There I operated his Kubota L345DT, a logging skidder, and his Cat D6 and D7 (the D7 is a cable blade!). In fact, I actually learned to drive on his previous smaller Kubota. When I built my garage, I borrowed his L345DT to do the grading - over 200 yards worth. My grandfather still uses his Kubota nearly everyday for logging work (he is 93 years young) so I have given up hope of ever inheriting it! It is probably too big for my property anyway.

Fourth, what I am currently thinking: I discussed borrowing a friend's Kioti to do some work, and my wife wasn't too thrilled with the idea. She doesn't want to be beholden to other people, and she was afraid I might ruin it and have to replace it! So I convinced her that I need one of my own..... I think I have, anyway... I think I want something like a Kubota BX23 or B7510. The BX23 seems like a good deal with the BH included, but might be a tad small. I want something that will fit on my gravel garden paths (about 48" wide) and has a low COG for stability on those hills. But it has to be big enough to do real work, and attach real implements. I am definitely considering hydrostatic drive, so my wife, and the kids when older, will have an easier time using it. Also, because the areas I am working are small and sometimes kind of tight, it would be easier than doing a lot of clutching. I have not yet tried a hydro tractor (other than a JD riding mower). I will also want 4WD since the ground is generally kind of damp, and the native soil is very slick. I saw "BossBill"s recent post where he finally decided on a Kubota 7510, and it seems I will be doing similar work.

So, now I would like to solicit input from all the experts here... Please let me know your thoughts about my situation, and ideas for different brands, different models, etc. In this area, there are big 3 dealers, but I have to travel a little further to get the others. I am not opposed to lesser known brands, or even radical ideas like a Power Trac, if it can do what I want. I know there are some good Kubota dealers in the area, and a friend of a friend owns one about 1.5 hours away. The JD dealer offered to bring me a tractor to try out on my own property. My grandfather suggested I also look at MF, since he says they can offer good value (and he has been operating tractors for close to 80 years). I am also interested in hearing your ideas for options and accessories that I should consider when making my comparison spreadsheets.

Thanks everyone!

CajunRider · Jan 31, 2005

One key thing we need to know is your budget for the tractor.

If you think BX23 is a tad small, how about a Kioti CK20HST. I've heard a lot of good thing about it. Ask KiotiJohn, he'll show and tell you all about it.

If I were you I'd seriously look at the PT-1430 or PT-2430 Power Trac as well. Check out their web-site http://www.power-trac.com

Bob_Skurka · Jan 31, 2005

Take a look at Ventrac and Steiner brands in addition to the Power Trac.

These brands have weight transfer systems to enhance balance, have dual wheel option, and they have unique articulting and oscillating frames that allow for vastly (let me repeat that: VASTLY) superior slope holding abilities. I own the smallest Ventrac, my model is not suited to the tasks you describe, but the larger units would work for you. My Ventrac will do "figure 8s" and "u turns" on slopes that would cause a garden tractor or a CUT to tumble down. There are places I will not even take my CUTS but that can be easily, safely, traversed with the Ventracs. I also got to play with a Power Trac this year and it was amazing, a better overall tractor than my little Ventrac, but not as good a mower. I was interest in mowing since I have other tractors.

Steiner Tractors

Ventrac Tractors

OffBalance · Jan 31, 2005

In response to your budget question, I would like to keep it under $13000 with FEL and brush hog and 8.8% sales tax.
I know I can do that with the 7510, but the BX23 will be a little more (but it comes with the BH!). I haven't priced other makes/models yet since I wanted everyone's input.

RalphVa · Jan 31, 2005

The local pricing in Va on a B7510 with FEL and cutter was right at $13,000 if you go for a lower-priced cutter (bush hog).

About the only tractor that you might get a BH included for this price might be the BX1830 or BX1530. Not sure these can be obtained with a BH!

So, you're probably going to have to look at one of the Korean (Kioti) or Chinese tractors or a Branson? maybe to get a tractor with BH for your price.

Ralph

OffBalance · Jan 31, 2005

I don't need to get a BH right away, so I wasn't including it in the price point I mentioned. I just noticed that the BX23 already had a BH included , but that would probably be $15k with tax...

getut · Jan 31, 2005

I can read between the lines and see you probably already answered everything in your question.

If a 2WD tractor was doing the slope you were worried about (albeit with a little pucker factor), then just about any 4WD tractor should have no problems. HST would be good for the hills.

You mention that a fully standard 3ph is heavily favored if not required. That rules out most of the specialty equipment like the steiners, ventrac, and power-trac. They use proprietary attachments. You probably rule out the sub-cuts since they have limited category 1 3ph's.

It also sound like you want the largest tractor possible while staying less than 48" wide.

I don't usually post to these "What should I get" threads because it is very subjective, but your requirements sound VERY much like the requirements that I had when I purchased, so this time I may be able to provide some input. I described the tractor that I wanted to all the dealers as "The biggest, beefiest tractor I can get while staying UNDER 48" wide." " I also want to share implements with my FIL with an 8n, so I need FULL 3ph capability".

Personally, the 2 contenders I ended up with were the Kioti CK20HST and the Kubota B7610. I ended up with the Kioti, because it "felt" beefier even though I sacrificed some horsepower. Then there was pricing.. that closed the deal, since in my area, Kubota is thousands more and JD was even higher yet.

GregJ · Jan 31, 2005

Offbalance,
I have owned a B7500 with a 4672 BH for over 2 years now. I have never regretted a thing with this purchase. I have yet to have any failure that was not directly a result of my participation /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif..... They are, in my opinion, the biggest bang for the buck tractor for work like you are talking about. I have used mine for similar work and been very pleased. The big selling point for me was when I did the math on capacities between the BX22/23 and the B7500/7510. The FEL and BH have 50% more capacity. The price is not that much more on the B7510 to get that much more performance.

I started out with a $5,000 budget, looking for a used tractor... it slowly went up to $10,000 and after we analyzed what we wanted to do and how long we would own it, etc., etc., etc....... we finally cost justified buying new and getting the BH and the Bearcat chipper/shredder and the pallet forks all at the same time. I may be adding a rear blade or a box blade down the road, but that will be very easy compared to adding a BH. I have used that BH so much, it has more than doubled the usefulness of my tractor.... So, I highly recommend you get the BH with the tractor and add the cheaper implements down the road. You see.... it's really easy for me to spend other peoples money. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif But, I guess you asked for opinions and that's what you're gonna get here. Also, I highly recommend Mark at Issaquah Kubota. He was very competitive and really helped me through the decision process. He helped make the purchasing process fun, rather than a battle over just price.

Hope this helps.... or add's to the confusion /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif,

Greg

BillG_in_TX · Jan 31, 2005

OffBalance,

Here's a good discussion that appears to parallel your situation.

RalphVa · Jan 31, 2005

If you back off on the need for the BH (could drill holes with a PHD for plantings a lot cheaper than with a BH), I'd say to look at the JD 4010. It could use some of the old implements, as it has full Cat 1 capability. I paid $13,300 for mine with 410 FEL and LX4 cutter. If you bought a something like a KK cutter, you could get the lot for less than $13k.

The 4010 has 870 # lift capacity at its draft arms vs. 1,000 # on an old much bigger tractor, a JD M, of the same hp. It's wheel width, even with its hugely wide turf tires, is a right at 48". The LX4 at 4' 3" sticks out a tad on each side.

Here's a pic of my 4010 with the JD M soil ripper on it.

Personally, I wouldn't buy a PHD, just rent one. Might consider renting a BH if you really need that, too.

Ralph