The way it should be.

[Bird]

Richard, I've got a couple of loaded .38s in the nightstand, but it's been so long since I got one out that I'm not sure I'd remember if anything did happen./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif I didn't even get one of them before going to the door when a couple of young fellows knocked at 2 a.m. after running off into the water when the creek was out of banks./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Tend to develop bad habits out here in the country, I guess. I kept my shop building locked for a few years after I moved here, but I don't guess it's been locked in nearly a year.

 

[Bird]

Yeah, Tom, even when we moved into town, we knew all the local law enforcement officers and weren't nearly as afraid of what they'd do to us if we got caught as were of what our dads would do if the police, or anyone else, told on us. I guess most of the other dads were like mine, when he told me, "If you ever get in jail, don't call me."

 

[GlennT]

Good discussion. I grew up on a farm in South Dakota and often think back to the "good 'ol days." But I must agree with others that they weren't always so good. In a relatively sparse population there were significant problems with poverty, depression, alcoholism, spousal abuse, child neglect, promiscuity, etc. What is different now is that we talk about these things openly. In the world I grew up in these issues were something to be ashamed of and only whispered about. For me, at least, I think now is the "good 'ol time."

 

[cowboydoc]

That brings up another point about the way things used to be too Bird. When I grew up the law enforcement was there more to help people and not necessarily drop the hammer on people. I remember a few times I should have gotten into more trouble than I did. But the local law just took us home or followed us home and had a good stiff talk with us. Nowadays it seems kids are getting thrown in jail for everything. My nephew just got arrested and charged with four infractions, reckless driving, and reckless endangerment of life for doing doughnuts in the high school parking lot. I had another friend who got in a car wreck and got charged with assault. Alot of other examples of where a person used to just get a slap on the wrist and now they throw the book at you for every little thing you do.

 

[Chuck52]

Richard,

I suppose that's another example of "zero tolerance". Results in kids being expelled for using aspirin in school. Zero tolerance equals zero thought involved for the principal and teachers so far as I can see. This particular foolishness is beloved of our head lawman Ashcroft, so I think blaming it entirely on the "left" might be a stretch, but it wouldn't surprise me.

Chuck

 

[Jeff396]

I don't know, I think the "zero tolerance" being implemented by the "unthinking" is not as prevelant as we might believe. It's just that when we hear of every instance in the country it seems like it is happening all the time when in fact most schools are able to deal with these things in an intelligent manner. Gotta wonder exactly how many schools there are in the US of A and factor that into the number of wild things we hear. A case in point.....a kindergardener at our school threatened his little friends that he "would bring in a gun and shoot them" if they didn't do what he wanted. The school handled it fine by explaining to him why it's not right to do that and that he could get into really big trouble for doing such a thing. End of problem. I have also heard of instances at this same school where on occasion an older student will be taken away in handcuffs. Kinda shows me that they actually understand the meaning of discretion and don't blindly follow the "rules" which in some cases would make them look a bit crazy. ie being expelled for posession of aspirin and nail files. On the other hand, I suppose there have been instances where parents have sued for them not doing exactly that. We seem to cause our own problems a lot of the time...fear if litigation will make you crazy!/w3tcompact/icons/crazy.gif


Jeff

 

[glennmac]

Every problem of modern American society could be solved by the implementation of three rules of conduct. In order of descending importance, they are:

1. There will be absolutely no sexual relations of any kind outside the lawful marriage of adult male and female human beings.

2. There will be no use of alcohol or addictive non-prescription drugs.

3. There will be no ownership of guns, bows, or other weapons that can inflict harm at a distance, other than by the military, authorized state militias and law enforcement personnel.

Merely HAVING these rules will be insuffient, however, unless they are ENFORCED. The most effective enforcement it to put to death, summarily and immediately, anyone who violates any of these rules.

There was a model for this ideal society. The bad news is that the U.S. recently corrupted it. The good news is that Mullah Omar may still be available.

 

[Chuck52]

Good point, Jeff. It sure is easy to get all wound up about the things we hear on TV and assume they are more common than they are. Of course, that's how we ended up with the Zero Tolerance rules in the first place. There have been a couple of local instances of foolishness, but this is a fairly large school district. I'm glad my Navy son got into his little pickle before the local rules toughened up, or I might still be seeing him only on visiting days.

Chuck

 

[BWa]

2 out of 3 I agree with ........But if and when the lawful use and right of the the people no longer have the responsiblity to the use and ownership of all firearms then they are no longer free and are at the mercy of those that have them or the threat of those that comand the army , police or any arnmed force ......I would rather deal with the illagel use of a firearm than live with the loss of freedoms that no firearms would cause , ... Good examples are the increase in the crime rate in England , or Austraia... some as high as 300%After the outlawing of gun ownership by lawful persons ......

 

[RAllen]

Zero Tolerance has an interesting history

In general, I do not think students should be bringing guns to schools but the following story points out the absurdity of such rules being enforced from on high.

It was deer season in the Northwest. An 18 year old senior, class officer and football player with a perfect disciplinary record went hunting before school. He stayed in the woods a little too long and was going to be late. Without thinking, he jumped into his pickup truck, drove directly to school and parked his vehicle in student parking; locked the truck and went to class.

The deer rifle was plainly visible in a gun rack behind the drivers seat. It was seen and reported. The senior was called to the principal's office. The principal, a deer hunter himself, took the seniors record and circumstances into account, told the young man he had used bad judgement and immediantly return the gun to his home and not bring a loaded weapon to school.

A teacher who was an extremely anti-gun and anti-hunting activist heard about the incident and reported it to several orgainizations. Somehow it made up to the Clinton department of education. An investigation was launched and the school system was warned: take action against the student re. the zero tolerance policy or lose funding.

The student was suspended for a lengthy period and was in danger of not graduating with his class. I am not sure what was the final outcome but it points out the absurdity of centralized control from Washington. Of course guns should not be brought onto school grounds without permission of school administration but local officials should have the power to handle such incidents.

Rick