Things you just have to have to start farming...

[DirtyDan243]

index : THE STOCKMAN GRASS FARMER

All good advise in previous posts. One thing I noticed, you said your cattle won't eat the weeds. Do some more research on Management Intensive Grazing. If you stock the way they do, the cows will eat it all. Get the correct grass/legume mix for your area and the weeds will decline. Keep in mind there are 3 ways to remove grass; burn it, mow it, graze it....only one of those makes you money.

 

[Spiveyman]

I'm working on that right mix thing. Just sent soil samples to the Co. Extension agent to help me with fertilizing. He's also going to help with selecting what to seed to use that will also help choke out the weeds. He suggested more legumes. I'd love to get rid of the weeds that aren't as desireable, but right now I have about 120 acres in hay and that's too much for me to spray. I'm hoping a good late fall cut and then power seeding will help the grasses and legumes take hold. We'll see.

 

[elalexander]

Hey Spiveyman. Many of my co-workers who farm swear by having a 4 wheeler to check fence,carry tools on, check cattle with etc etc. Also, everyone of them have a small to mid size first aid kit close by. One guy has one on his tractor and a bigger one in the house as he lives 1/2 away from the nearest hospitial. Also, when I got my tractor I had a "toy list" too. I got advice to the tune of "take your time and watch the classifieds in the newspapers". Many times you can get good deals on used stuff. Oh yeah, do you have a welder?

 

[Spiveyman]

...a 4 wheeler to check fence,carry tools on, check cattle with etc etc. Also, everyone of them have a small to mid size first aid kit close by. One guy has one on his tractor and a bigger one in the house as he lives 1/2 away from the nearest hospitial. Also, when I got my tractor I had a "toy list" too. I got advice to the tune of "take your time and watch the classifieds in the newspapers". Many times you can get good deals on used stuff. Oh yeah, do you have a welder?

ATV is a must - both for farm use and fun use. Really good point about the first aid kit. We raise our cattle for beef, and I've already had a disagreement with a bull who decided he didn't want to be hamburger that day. I got 7 stitches out of it, but I still won. After that encounter I learned the wonders of deer skin gloves, AND the wonders of actually wearing them. But like it or not, stuff happens when working with animals 10 times your size, especially one's with horns!

I'm all about buying good used stuff. I do not however know how to weld. I'm learning how valuable that skill can be around here. I might have to look in to learning that and getting a welder.

 

[texasjohn]

Two comments.

When I first got my stock, I, too, got quite a few animals eating out of my hand... not the best idea... yes, they are gentle, but cows being cows, they get to pushing each other to get to the goodies in your hand... and, boom, unexpectedly one pushes another and somehow you get stepped on or push over.... they are simply asserting their dominance with each other and..oops, little 'ol you simply are within 1 foot of 1400 lbs of cow that is on the move and get squished in the process. I now toss cubes on the ground and move slowly thru the herd... they stay gentle, but move slowly out of my way when I crowd them.

Net...don't get your bull DOG gentle... he's got to respect you and keep a 5 foot distance... PARTICILARLY with those horns... swishing a fly can catch you with the horns... but you already know that! also, over time, if he does not respect you, he'll begin treating you just like another bovine... this means that he practices dominance behavior... and, trust me, you don't outweigh him and will lose the shoving match.

Same deal for cows.. except that having a totally gentle cow can become a real danger when they calve... the protective hormones can kick in and the little booger staggers over to you and suddenly the cow sees you just like another cow... and rushes in (first few days of birth) to protect the calf and lays one on you no longer respecting you as a person, but simply as a herd member... not every super gentle cow will do this... but getting whammed is once too many!

Now... it's not too early to get a generator... great to have out in the pasture... so many things you can do with electricity.. use any electrical tool, drill, saw, grinder, welder (requires about 5500 watts or better), makes a bunch of onerous chores much easier, etc. Also, provides backup power in case of emergency... get a 220 and you can hook it into your pump when the power is out and cattle are thirsty. There are many threads on generators in TBN.. PM me if you want more info.

 

[Spiveyman]

Yep... I'm young into cattle, but those are things I figured out very early. I lease some land to a guy to run cattle on. His cows will come up and lean on you, literally. It's the most annoying thing. You cannot "drive" cattle who don't respect your space. We like our cattle docile, but not down right domesticated. They have to respect your space. I never thought of it in terms of them considering you part of the herd, and then asserting dominance though.

We are grass fed 99.9% of the time and only give enough grain that they will recognize the bucket when we need to lead them. But in the 0.1% of the time when we give them grain, it is scary to be out there with them. A simple nudge to a bull could kill a human. We excercise extreme caution when we do give them a treat.

The other thing with cows is we don't want them too domesticated. We want them to be able to skewer a coyotte if they need to.

Wish I'd thought about that generator thing sooner. My father-in-law (professional yard-sale-er) called last Sat at about 7:15 AM (the one day I can sleep in all the way to 7:30) and woke me up asking if I needed a generator on the farm. In my slumber I turned down a very nice 1,500 watt generator for less than $200. Oh well, I'm sure there will be others...

 

[texasjohn]

I firmly believe you will want a generator in the 5500 continuous watt range. I've sent you a PM with my reasoning.

My beefmasters, though gentle, don't confuse people and coyotes/dogs... they will RUN/ATTACK threatening cannines. (part of the hardiness criteria)

Yes, if your cattle are too familar with you/humans, they absolutely begin to treat you like another bovine. If you bottle feed a calf... it will come up and butt you, just like you were its mother, in an attempt to get you to feed it... cute at 60 lbs.... agony at 600lbs... deadly at 1400lbs... and, once the respect/fear is gone, it can't be regained.... if you try "punishment" then the stock turns "mean" ... think about it... calves/bulls /cows push each other around.. .it's gotta hurt their heads, etc... so, pain is not too much a deterrant... they just wait until you are looking the other way then wham you..asserting their dominance, just as if you were a bovine looking the other way. their mental calculation is that they are dominant unless they LOSE a pushing/shoving match...

If you haven't figured it out, many, many people who want to come out and look at your stock will have NO CLUE about how to behave around them... dangerous, dangerous. Little kids can squeal and run into the herd triggering fight/protection responses from mamma cows... guests can not watch/read what is happening with the stock and be in the wrong place at the wrong time..actually, this is almost always the case... I don't know how to teach a person "cow sense" ... it's something that you just learn over time... how to stand, how to look, where to position yourself, how fast to move, when to stand, when to move... when to wave your arms, when to throw your hat into the face of something.

Oh, by the way... I have a 5 foot PVC pipe, about 2 inches in diameter, schedule 40, that I always carry when I'm messing with cattle... amazing how it makes your arms longer and keeps you safer... you can reach out and poke stuff, protect yourself, bang something on the horn, the nose, it's great both in the pasture and in the pen... never mess with stock without it!

my opinion, your experience may vary (but I doubt it).

 

[Spiveyman]

Yep, I agree exactly. Our cattle can tell the difference between a dog/coyotte and a person, and maybe "taming" them won't affect that, but as you mentioned there are several other reasons not to have them that familiar with you.

The bottle feeding thing - exactly what happened with the guy who leases some of my land. He bottle fed two heifers and they are such a pain in the rear now. Just like you described. I hate to be mean to them, but that is the ONLY way for me to move a 1,200 lb cow that doesn't respect my space.

I like the PVC idea. This past fall I picked up a couple of cutting sticks at the North American Livestock Expo in Lousiville. These things are fiberglass with a metal tip and rubber handle - very stout. Maybe not quite as stout as your PVC, but they seem to get the job done. With thos trouble cows I mentioned, as soon as I pick up the cutting stick they will move away from me. I don't have to hit them with it, for some reason it does cause them to back off.

As for other people.... whew! I think we're going to have to implement a "stay on the people side of the fence" or "stay in the Gator" rule. We had a couple of reporters come out to do a story on my partner and me. (Here's the story from the newspaper: Brand of brothers ) The photographer jumps out with his camera, obviously indestructible while behind the lense, and starts approaching our main herd sire - the one pictured in my avatar. The bull doesn't really care too much until the guy gets right up on him, flashing in his face and then kneels down suddenly to get a ground level shot. I thought that guy was toast. The bull took a very defensive posture. I guess something about kneeling came across aggressive. He didn't charge the photographer, but you could tell that the reporters didn't respect the animals. I think they saw us standing out amongst them and just assumed they were harmless. It's not worth the risk of them getting us or themselves hurt.

 

[texasjohn]

Good article.

PVC pipe... cheap, effective, you can scatter them all around, in the barn, in the pen, back of pickup... whereever you might need one... they weather well...I've found fiberglass comes apart after a while..then you get glass in your hands

 

[26m10]

Good article.

Great Article...I am jealous...I wish I had the nuts to do what you guys are doing.