Things you just have to have to start farming...

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Thanks for the welcome! I am glad to be here.

I don't mind a new thread but if we kept this one goin we could try for the longest record! Either way is OK.

That incident with the heifers was fun. I was lucky finding those heifers where I did and I don't really know what possessed me to try what I did - it just came to me as I knew I had a snowball's chance in hades alone on foot herding them after they'd been worked up - but it worked! I have had a fair bit of experience working "teenage" cattle both in terms of research and in terms of running stockers (in Canada we call them grassers). Tex your description is about right on! I've noticed that cutting horse competitions never use truely athletic teenage cattle - wonder why that is?

Now I'll make a feeble attempt to get back on topic. What if I was to say you don't need a tractor at all much less any of the iron that goes with it! Of course you have the choice to spend the money if a tractor is part of the lifestyle you want. Personally I'd have a tractor but I know I don't really need it and that it probably costs me more than it is worth. I can do far more through management of forages, grazing and the use of a quad or jeep or pickup than having a tractor will get me. Just stirring the pot!

-Ed-

 

[Spiveyman]

Now I'll make a feeble attempt to get back on topic. What if I was to say you don't need a tractor at all much less any of the iron that goes with it! Of course you have the choice to spend the money if a tractor is part of the lifestyle you want. Personally I'd have a tractor but I know I don't really need it and that it probably costs me more than it is worth. I can do far more through management of forages, grazing and the use of a quad or jeep or pickup than having a tractor will get me. Just stirring the pot!

Actually that's a great lead back in to the topic if we want to go there. I think it comes down to a topic early in the thread of what the land will be used for and how much of it you have. With 170 acres and a cattle operation I'm not sure how I could get 'er done these days without a tractor. I know there were lots of cattle operations before tractors were invented, but since someone went to all the trouble to invent them, and Ford went to all the trouble to perfect them! I figured I might as well use one. And if I'm going to use one, they make some pretty cool toys to assist in those tasks we must do. Besides all the cattle handling info, the nuggets for me in this have been the idea of rear ballast for the FEL, and the BB. While not critical for farming it sure is helpfull for land management.

I don't mind a new thread but if we kept this one goin we could try for the longest record!

By the way, I don't think we could ever compete with the road rage thread! Last I saw it was > 20 pages.... unless maybe I got a blue Vs. green Vs. red Vs. orange debate going, but I'm sure that one already exists around here somewhere.

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,


Meet Christoph...

This article is a description of Christoph and his operation. he also runs 100+ stockers.

OYF ALBERTA/NWT - 2006 Regional Event

Christoph does NOT own a tractor! He grew up on them but knows the costs outweigh the benefits. I suspect that most people don't need a tractor - they just want them and usually the bigger the better. Nothing wrong with that just recognize the cost structure associated with it.

He does however use hydraulics on the back of his pickups and has a V blade for the front. He had over 7 feet of snow last year! It was a very tough year.

He actually went to Oregon State Univ as did I - ticks me off everytime I read that Univ of Oregon line. He did cowin the outstanding young farmer of canada award.

It is the principles behind his operation and others like it that I believe are the future of the beef industry in North America.

As for the Dube chute - I see the principle two gates in an alleyway make a chute. I see "issues with this - like getting the animal facing the right way, getting their head through a headgate and the lower sides issue I mentioned before. Interesting though.

-Ed-

 

[Spiveyman]

As for the Dube chute - I see the principle two gates in an alleyway make a chute. I see "issues with this - like getting the animal facing the right way, getting their head through a headgate and the lower sides issue I mentioned before. Interesting though.

The Dube chute is very well thought out by a real cowboy. If you weren't using Texas Longhorn cattle I'm not sure it would make sense, but with horns you have to provide a way to handle them safely. There are head gates out there that work great (Powder River Longhorn Chute) for example, but are really expensive. The Dube has very nice ratchets on those opposing gates so that you can squeeze any sized animal very effectively. Lots of safety functions built in to protect the cowboy and the cattle. Ultimately it doesn't matter which way the animal faces. There are palp gates on both ends, there are vertical branding tubes on both sides, cleats for the nose pliers... It is very symmetrical, however it helps to have them face the same way, I think that will be up to the skill of the cowboy in how we load them and train them. When we get our system set up I'll try to video and get pictures to show it in use.

Oh, and by the way, sure you can do it without a tractor, but where's the fun in that? For me the tractor was like a right of passage.

 

[texasjohn]

Hmm... I looked at Christoph's photo... young stout buck!!! Wait until he's got another 30 years on him... bet he'll be using a tractor!

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

First on the Dube chute. I see where your coming from - long horn cattle. Makes more sense that way. My cattle (shorthorns) had no horns and I didn't want them too - I saw no advantage in that system.

If you knew Christoph you'd know that he'll use a tractor when it makes economic sense to - even tomorrow. I've only known one other producer who knew his cost structure and the costs of alternatives as well as Christoph. Most producers know their costs but they don't fully account for everything on an enterprise by enterprise basis. For example I've seen producers who know what it costs them to put fuel in a tractor but fail to add in the insurance, depreciation costs or don't attribute repair costs appropriately. At the end of the day agriculture - no matter what kind is an economic exercise and is going to ever increasingly become more so. If you think about it fuel costs are going nowhere but up, finishing costs on cattle are headed nowhere but up because ethanol corn is going to outcompete feed corn, pasture costs will go up as forage acres become inceasingly replaced by ethanol acres, fertilizer costs are headed nowhere but up as it takes lots of fuel dollars to create fertilizers like anhydrous ammonia and urea. It comes down to money and ever increasingly will - the challenge for producers is to find ways to cut those input dollars. Increases in productivity don't hack it anymore as increases in productivity result in lower prices recieved while inputs costs continue to climb faster than additional income from increased productivity. I think animal agriculture is one of the best ways we have in North America to get out of this vicious cycle. The opportunity to widen the gap between input costs and prices recieved albeit at lower productivity levels is tremendous and will I think increase profitability. In North America we've mostly been failing to recognize this and take advantage of it. Our solution has generally been get big or get out which I disagree with as where does it leave the family farms like the ones I grew up on? Are they a thing of the past? I don't think they have to be however it will require some major changes in how producers do things.

Let me ask a question. What do you guys see as the biggest cost in your beef production systems and how can we tackle it?

-Ed-

 

[Spiveyman]

...In North America we've mostly been failing to recognize this and take advantage of it. Our solution has generally been get big or get out which I disagree with as where does it leave the family farms like the ones I grew up on? Are they a thing of the past? I don't think they have to be however it will require some major changes in how producers do things.

Let me ask a question. What do you guys see as the biggest cost in your beef production systems and how can we tackle it?

Ed, sorry to take so long to get back here - not sure if you'll be looking now, but the biggest problem we have is not being big. With smaller operations all of your costs are larger from freight to labels for the beef to buying cattle. Big companies can afford to do things on larger scales and save in the piece price of the product. The solution for us was to find a nich market where we can charge a preimium for a premium product and be able to make some money.

I also just finally got around to snapping a couple shots of our Dube chute. These were quick snaps as one of our cows was in the neighbor's field and I was needing to go help get her out and fix the fence. You can see the features on this version of the Dube, the vertical bars, each on removable for access, the palp gates, even the ratchet mechanism.

 

[D7E]

" AMEN TO THAT " .......True blue ?

 

[EasyEd]

Hey All,

Now it is my turn to apologise for not getting back sooner.

The Dube chute is interesting. I've been studying the pictures you provided trying to decide for sure how it works. I see the palp access on both ends. I see how it ratchets but what controls an animals back and forth motion? Nose pinch and/or squeeze?

As interesting as the chute is I couldn't help but notice the pastures in the background. What is the weed left behind? I see they are all clipped real short. Do you use portable electric fence for intensive grazing? How much legume component do you have in the pastures?

As for the cost issue I asked about - I am not as familiar with operations in your neck of the woods or Texas where TexasJohn is from but in the northern part of the US and Canada it is generally winter feed costs as being the biggest cost factor followed by supporting open cows. Does anyone else within a reasonable distance also raise longhorns in the way you do? If you could maybe share some costs doing something cooperatively.

Your choice of longhorns is interesting. I assume it works well from a marketing perspective. I take it you do direct farm sales of halves, quarters and such. You must be near a population center for that to work.

-Ed-

Ps I saw the pics of your tractor and family in the other thread. Very nice - reminds me of when my children were young. The tractor I used then was a 200 series Case.

 

[texasjohn]

EasyEd, go ahead and start a thread on cattle raising economics and practices... that way, others will have a clue about what is being discussed.... as a new member, it'll be good practice for you to figure out how to start a thread... kinda rub some of the newness off, so to speak.

Lots I'll discuss under that kind of heading.... fencing, palpation, AI, purebred, function versus the eye of man, individual breed benefits and problem, handling techniques, range management, high intensity short duration grazing, water management... personal labor, winter feed, oh, gosh... there is so much... but it just doesn't belong in this thread.

It will likely become a well read topic...