Third function dirverter valve vers True 3rd function valve

[k0ua]

One of your rear remotes can be used as a "third function" by running the hoses from the back to the front. With this setup you would have one hand on the loader joystick and then use your other hand to control the third function. Personally this would drive me nuts! But several on here not only do this, but like it.

Not in every case.. Some of our joystick and rear valve controls are close enough to operate then all with one hand. Using my fingers on the rear remote valve and my palm on the joystick. It doesn't seem to slow me down a bit. I would not like it if you had to move your hand off of the joystick to actuate a valve by your side but by not having to move your hand, I like it a lot.

 

[ovrszd]

The function diverted will be locked in place just as if the valve was shut i.e. not being used.

 

[k0ua]

Question - will the loader arms and curl still hold when the diverter is operated? Example loader at full height and grapple set to place bails on hay stack. If the diverter is on the lift circuit, will the loader arms drop when flow is diverted to release the hooks?

No, they will not drop, remember there is fluid on both sides of the lift cylinder(s), There is no path to exhaust the fluid out of the cylinder because the diverter valve switches both ports. There is no place for the fluid to go, so the cylinder cannot move.

 

[powerscol]

Thanks everyone - I am learning a lot.

 

[joefromga]

I have a simple question.

If you have a thumb and you close it and curl the bucket on a backhoe does the curl have to overcome the pressure of the thumb? To push it back onto the cylinder?

If not how does the thumb hold the load in place? How is a thumb setup? Is there a maximum pressure for the thumb in relation to the bucket?

 

[LD1]

No. If installing a thumb, it should be designed to give similar power/force at the tip of the teeth as the bucket. That way neither one can "overcome" the other.

If you have a thumb with too small of a cylinder, when clamping down on something by using the bucket, you can blow hoses off your thumb cylinder or damage the cylinder.

If the power/force between the thumb and grapple are roughly the same, you have a stale mate between the hydraulic forces, and maximum clamping ability.

 

[Turbys_1700]

I'm still getting use to my grapple diverter set up. Don't think I am coordinated enough to do more than one thing at a time with the lift curl clamp process. I did bend the tips of the top clamp moving that darn cultimulcher the other day. Mild steel. My son was able to hammer the tips back straight. Got to weld a gusset all the way to the tip. The current gusset goes to within about 4 inches to the tip end. Other than that works great. Best $$$ I've spent in a long time.

 

[LD1]

I'm still getting use to my grapple diverter set up. Don't think I am coordinated enough to do more than one thing at a time with the lift curl clamp process. I did bend the tips of the top clamp moving that darn cultimulcher the other day. Mild steel. My son was able to hammer the tips back straight. Got to weld a gusset all the way to the tip. The current gusset goes to within about 4 inches to the tip end. Other than that works great. Best $$$ I've spent in a long time.

What brand/model grapple are you using? Most that I have seen have the tips gusseted all the way especially on the clamp.

 

[Turbys_1700]

This is it LD. You can see from the pic that the gusset goes down to within about 4 inches of the tip. That is the only issue I have had so far. I looked real hard at the other manufacturers but I was able to score this one under list price at Kaufman Trailers. They are the distributor for American.

Economy Root Grapple 72" - American Attachments

 

[LD1]

This is it LD. You can see from the pic that the gusset goes down to within about 4 inches of the tip. That is the only issue I have had so far. I looked real hard at the other manufacturers but I was able to score this one under list price at Kaufman Trailers. They are the distributor for American.

Economy Root Grapple 72" - American Attachments

Yep, certainly a weak area on that one. I'd gusset it for sure.

I have had ~12" diameter logs that were about 20-30' ling between them teeth before and pulling them backwards. When turning it puts a heck of a stress on the teeth. If mine were like yours I'd have bent them multiple times by now.

 

[Turbys_1700]

Yep. Don't know why they didn't bring the gusset down to the tip edge. Those old implements I am pulling out of the over grown honeysuckle don't give too much. Not a difficult fix though. Just got to get out the saw and welder.

 

[ovrszd]

Only thing harder on a Grapple than old iron is old rocks.

 

[k0ua]

Only thing harder on a Grapple than old iron is old rocks.

Ever run across any "young rocks"..

 

[scdeerslayer]

I have a simple question.

If you have a thumb and you close it and curl the bucket on a backhoe does the curl have to overcome the pressure of the thumb? To push it back onto the cylinder?

If not how does the thumb hold the load in place? How is a thumb setup? Is there a maximum pressure for the thumb in relation to the bucket?

With the thumb valve closed it locks the cylinder in place. If both valves are open, then yes one can overpower the other, and it will move fairly fast, faster than normal. That's basically the same principle as the quick-dump or "regen" feature of some loader valves.

 

[LD1]

The limiting factor of what "locks" the cylinder in place is the pressure in the hoses. IF you have an undersized cylinder on the thumb you will blow the hoses right off. Use a thumb that was designed for the machine or a machine with similar power and you should have no issues

 

[SSdoxie]

ovrszd
Thanks for the information. My Bobcat is as you describe, FEL-rear remotes-3pt. As is I can only lift/drop and curl partially (is not uniform in motion) I also know my 3pt is last as when I have my remotes in float the 3pt will not work. In going over my system I do not see a power beyond as that port is covered by the rear remote valves. There does not appear to be a port at the loader control valve either. Perhaps I am not looking correctly. Ill call Bobcat tomorrow and check. I dont see any exposed tubing as everything appears to be bolted directly to the trans housing

My grapple operation is as follows. Operate the loader controls to place the hay grapple over the bale and engage the hooks. Right now I stop and grab a rear remote lever to engage the hooks, so there is a gap between loader and and grapple. It appear I need a true 3rd function to be able to operate the hooks from a switch on the loader joy stick, otherwise I would still need to stop and move a rear remote lever. With a diverter I would momentarily loose a loader function when engaging the hooks.
Question - will the loader arms and curl still hold when the diverter is operated? Example loader at full height and grapple set to place bails on hay stack. If the diverter is on the lift circuit, will the loader arms drop when flow is diverted to release the hooks?

The loader valve does have PB already on it. Look at the steel line coming off the inside (left side) of valve running back to the rear. You will see what appears to be an extended female thread adapter the the line is connected to on the valve. This is the PB.

To use a true 3rd function you would remove this steel line then using hose connect from control PB fitting to 3rd function valve then another hose back to where that steel line was connected.
With only 8 GPM @ 2500 engine RPM trying to multi-function all 3 circuits at same time would slow all of them down so much that it would be faster to operate each at a time. I can and have used multi-function of loader and bucket but in most cases it is quicker to move one at a time.
Bobcat does (or did anyway) offer a diverter valve kit for these tractors. Diverter installed in bucket circuit. Price was a little too high for my thinking and would probably source parts online, but their kit does include a different bucket spool to eliminate Regen function and spool could be ordered individually if needed. The Regen function when using grapple would only be an issue if you moved joystick fully to far right while in grapple mod using bucket dump.

 

[ovrszd]

Ever run across any "young rocks"..

That my friend is a very "deep" question. Relevance needs to be determined.

 

[Sysop]

Timeline needs established too. Which came first? Dirt or rocks?

I'm interested to learn, my wife often says that I'm "older than dirt"...

 

[ovrszd]

I also think I need to try to clarify something.... Correction if needed is appreciated.

So, tractor running, no hydraulic requirement. Pump pushes fluid thru the FEL valves, thru the 3rd function valves (if equipped), thru the rear remotes, thru the 3pt and dumps back to the tank. No pressure established. Open flow. This cycle can go on indefinitely and create minimal heat because there is virtually very little resistance.

When a valve is activated, regardless of where it is in this chain, it first closes the "open" path. Then it diverts this flow to whatever function is desired. Let's say lifting the FEL. Suddenly the relaxed open flow of fluid has been disrupted. Now we begin to build pressure. Whatever pressure required to lift the FEL is exerted. No bypass is required. Suddenly we reach the end of the FEL lift cylinder's stroke. Now the PB in the FEL valve is activated. All excess pressure is pushed down the line. If no other action is required, it quietly dumps into the tank. Let's say we have also activated the 3rd function. Now the pump provides pressure to the FEL lift, it bypasses down the line thru the PB because the lift cylinder has reached it's max stroke, now the 3rd function has the pump's full ouput. Action will be quickly completed. Now the PB in the 3rd function valve is activated. All excess pressure is pushed down the line. If no other action is required, it quietly dumps into the tank. This process continues as long as a valve is activated. When us operators are done required pressure the whole system goes back to the relaxed state and fluid is simply dumped back into the tank. If this makes no sense or if I'm in error please let me know. I think it's beneficial for everyone to understand how this works.

 

[ovrszd]

Timeline needs established too. Which came first? Dirt or rocks?

I'm interested to learn, my wife often says that I'm "older than dirt"...

Well, if she intends that to be an insult she should say older than rocks. Dirt is made by a combination of things. Rock dust. Decayed organic material. Moisture. Kinda like the chicken/egg thing. If there were no rocks present, there would be no rock dust.