Thoughts on ****** Harrasment...

[bunyip]

One of our senior female managers comments on her gardener being a piece of eye candy but god help me if I make such a comment (about a female), thankfully I don't work in the same area.
I do work with several quite attractive females and my only problem with ****** harassment is that I don't get any.
It seems to be a one way street and they also seem to retrospectively pick on a celebrity although the catholic church is under considerable pressure at the moment.
I don't condone ****** harassment but where do we draw the line, apparently if I just look at a woman it can be misconstrued.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

All through the 80's and 90's I worked as a residential contractor, dealt almost exclusively with the woman of the house. I was young, strong, great shape, and not that hard on the eyes... Was also married the whole time with children. I can't tell you how many times the women I dealt with crossed the line. I never said a word, just played dumb... and stupid. Always told my wife we would have to watch out for so and so. Now for the past almost 20 years I have done commercial work, and deal with women on a professional level. It is always yes Ma'am, no personal interaction, and as much as possible over the phone, etc. I am very cautious of having women on a job site, and never one on one. I trust myself... but don't know what is cooking in someone else's pot.

 

[goeduck]

Legally we are innocent until proven guilty. Unfortunately nowadays in the media and as it relates to your job it appears you are guilty if accused and not given the chance to prove yourself innocent.

Having said that, all these men that have done these horrible things over the years are making it hard on everyone else. Harvey Weinstein deserves what he is getting from what I can tell. Same for many others but there has to be some cutoff statute in my opinion.

 

[bunyip]

The other thread Millenial Job Interview covers it with the comment 'I don't feel safe'.
The perceived threat gets legs and runs.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I always felt that a slap on my *** was quite the compliment! Of course, never from the women I was attracted too. Probably the same applies when you reverse the genders.

 

[airbiscuit]

I for one am happy that we are taking ****** harassment more seriously. Might there be some false claims? Yes, but prescious few. Most of the claims we hear about have multiple accusers, and they were often disparaged for having spoken up.

The best advice I have heard about staying out of trouble is "The Rock" test (Duane Johnson).

If you wouldn't say it or do it to The Rock, you should be okay.

 

[blackrams]

I for one am happy that we are taking ****** harassment more seriously. Might there be some false claims? Yes, but prescious few. Most of the claims we hear about have multiple accusers, and they were often disparaged for having spoken up.

The best advice I have heard about staying out of trouble is "The Rock" test (Duane Johnson).

If you wouldn't say it or do it to The Rock, you should be okay.

I have no problem with that, just as long as they do it when the "supposed" aggression occurs, not a three or four decades later.
There's a difference between being a ****** predator and being interested in ***. Tell me of one person on this or any other board that didn't ask some lady and then got turned down. Or, maybe didn't.......... Some of these accusations are pretty hard to accept. That is not to suggest that No doesn't mean No.

What it does mean is that very few of us were angels, I know I wasn't. Good candidates will now consider what they could be accused of (without proof) and ask themselves why they should put themselves and their families through such ordeals. Too many "ladies" were willing but now might have an axe to grind or political motivations. That goes for both sides of the political spectrum. As far as I'm concerned, bring proof or keep your trap shut.

Yeah, I've had those moments myself when I would have been more than willing to chew my arm off rather than wake her up the next morning. Not suggesting I'm proud of it but, most of us could be accused. Let those who don't live in glass houses throw the first stones or something like that.

Rams

 

[lennyzx11]

A few years ago, I worked as an instructor in the field I am in. My profession (construction) travels most of the time and when we see each other it's pretty tight knit with hugs (male and female) and a lot of camaraderie and drinks or dinner.

A young lady worked at the lunchroom at the school I was at temporarily who laughed, joked, and flat out flirted with me daily when I got my lunch. To the point of asking me out. I'm married and don't stray.
Anyhow, there was an evening thing at the school that was catered and she worked it. As she came by, wearing one of those chefs shirts white double breasted collar up tight types, I quipped "Nice Shirt.".
Next day HR has me in as I was accused of ****** harassment. I had counseling from HR, my two next managers, sensitivity training, and was forbidden to go near her again.

Some years later, I met her out and about and asked her bluntly why.
She said that she didn't want to report it but an HR rep had been near and heard me and had threatened her with disciplinary action if she didn't report my behavior.
Luckily, my superiors knew the kind of person I am from seeing me turn offers down on the road and interactions with females through the years.
Still rubs me raw to this day though!

 

[Redneck in training]

One of our CFO liked Porsches. He had large Porsche poster depicting the car and scantily clad beautiful young woman leaning on it in his office. One day one of the woman from accounting quit for another job but for some reason didn't like it and either quit or got fired. She came back and asked to get her old job back but was rejected. Being unemployed she went to a lawyer and sued the CFO saying she had quit because his door was always open and she had look at the poster. She lost but it cost the company quite a bit of money before it was thrown out. You can guess who won. Both her and our lawyers.

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Part of the problem is that most people don't know what ****** harassment is when they see it. It's not one remark, one picture, one dirty joke; it's actually a series of actions that affect another person negatively. This definition is close enough, given the explanation:

****** harassment


Unwelcome ****** advances, requests for ****** favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a ****** nature that tends to create a hostile or offensive work environment.

****** harassment is a form of *** Discrimination that occurs in the workplace. Persons who are the victims of ****** harassment may sue under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964 (42 U.S.C.A. § 2000e et seq.), which prohibits *** discrimination in the workplace.

The federal courts did not recognize ****** harassment as a form of *** discrimination until the 1970s, because the problem originally was perceived as isolated incidents of flirtation in the workplace. Employers are now aware that they can be sued by the victims of workplace ****** harassment. The accusations of ****** harassment made by anita f. hill against Supreme Court Justice Clarence Thomas during his 1991 confirmation hearings also raised societal consciousness about this issue.

Courts and employers generally use the definition of ****** harassment contained in the guidelines of the U.S. Equal Employment Opportunity Commission (EEOC). This language has also formed the basis for most state laws prohibiting ****** harassment. The guidelines state:

Unwelcome ****** advances, requests for ****** favors, and other verbal or physical conduct of a ****** nature constitute ****** harassment when

submission to such conduct is made either explicitly or implicitly a term or condition of an individual's employment,
submission to or rejection of such conduct by an individual is used as the basis for employment decisions affecting such individuals, or
such conduct has the purpose or effect of unreasonably interfering with an individual's work performance or creating an intimidating, hostile, or offensive working environment. (29 C.F.R. § 1604.11 [1980])

A key part of the definition is the use of the word unwelcome. Unwelcome or uninvited conduct or communication of a ****** nature is prohibited; welcome or invited actions or words are not unlawful. ****** or romantic interaction between consenting people at work may be offensive to observers or may violate company policy, but it is not ****** harassment.

NOTE: There is a difference between ****** harassment, ****** discrimination, and ****** assault/battery. You can get away with some things under the definition of ****** harassment, but you start groping, touching, pinching, slapping, etc. and you are in deep doo doo and probably better look for another job. Commenting on someone's blouse is not ****** harassment, although done continually, in a ****** context, may be.

The example given above, about the blouse, is, in my opinion, way out of line.