Thoughts on Sexual Harrasment...

[2LaneCruzer]

This is a weapon that is out of control. Short story.

At one time, I was a Production Manager I had a large organization. It should be noted that I'm a stickler for timeliness. I don't need people who can't be at work on time. If you can't be where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there, someone else has to pick up the slack. It's not their job to do your job. Regardless, upon taking this position, I met with the entire organization and let them know of my expectations. I don't expect anything of anyone else that I am not willing to do myself.

Anyway, I had a female employee who could never seem to make it to work on time. She was "office staff" so, her tardiness didn't slow down the production line often but, there were times the "floor" needed information and needed it now or the whole process came to a grinding halt. This person was not a direct report to me but, her boss was.

Noting the issues of her tardiness, we met with her and after discussing her "issues" decided to move things around and adjust her report time to thirty minutes later in the morning. She was happy and the situation was resolved, for a while. Two weeks later, the same old routine started up again. This went on for over a month. So, I called another meeting with all parties involved. Another adjustment was made, now she's reporting one hour later than when I first took over. But, I'm now at my limit. The organization is not responsible for this "lady's" home issues. Get it together or find somewhere else to work. She was advised of this.

Two weeks later, we're right back into the same problem. As she enters the office area, I'm standing in front of her boss as she walks in. I told her boss to address the issue in her performance review and to start taking action, I made sure she heard what I said. We are at the point that I will not accept further tardiness. It should be noted that previous bosses had allowed her tardiness behavior for years. But, I had held two meetings and made tried to be flexible. That was over.

Her boss met with her again that day.

Two days later she filed sexual harassment charges against me.

I was suspended from work and every female employee in the organization was interviewed. No bad reports but, still I'm in hot water. HR is on my butt. I get called in and interviewed by an all female staff from HR. I have no idea where all these supposed harassment accusations by this employee are coming from but, I stand my ground. As it turns out, the complaint never mentions the initial problem and the direct supervisor was never interviewed. That direct supervisor was a male. When it was all said and done, they interviewed her boss and I was cleared of all charges. But, the problem was never solved. She was transferred to another area (not reporting to me or her former boss) and just as I expected, she returned to her old ways and was never at work on time.

Her new boss was scared to do anything about it and her lack of timeliness and performance affected his department. There is no winning such situations.

This pretty much confirms what I have been saying all along and is certainly in line with my experience. It puts them back in control, and anything you do from then on will be reported as retaliation. It causes so much consternation and red tape that it's easier to let them get away with their tardiness, poor performance and insubordination than it is to put up with the disruption that correcting the problem causes.

 

[blackrams]

This pretty much confirms what I have been saying all along and is certainly in line with my experience. It puts them back in control, and anything you do from then on will be reported as retaliation. It causes so much consternation and red tape that it's easier to let them get away with their tardiness, poor performance and insubordination than it is to put up with the disruption that correcting the problem causes.

Probably an unfortunate flaw in my genetics. I won't and don't bend on some things. I'm the same person I was then and to this day would do the same thing. If you can't be to work on time, go some where else. That's not to suggest that I (in anyway) think sexual harassment should be allowed but, when both sexes are present, there's going to be interaction. Much depends on how both parties react to whatever is said. Whether it's a guy or a gal, doesn't matter. What one says can easily be misconstrued to mean something it was not intended to mean or could lead to other things. We've all seen it. We've given a horrendous weapon by being overly sensitive and not seeing what it is for What It Is. IMHO, all that needs to happen is when something is perceived to be out of bounds, let the offending party know that. If that doesn't end the situation, then get HR involved. Waiting decades to report something is in my opinion, total BS. There's an agenda at work here.

We've all seen these different interactions, normally it starts off as joking. The offended party has a responsibility to ensure the offender knows where the limits are. Maybe you or others have not seen this but, the old saying goes like this, there won't be any crap if you don't start some crap or, entertain the possibility of it. Too many women want to play along and then when it's perceived they might be interested, drop the hammer. It should never get that far. No, I'm not talking about my personal experience but, I've witnessed it. We're all human and all guilty to some extent. We all know that someone that you don't joke around with, we also know the person(s) that like to play or joke around. This is a result of living in the Twilight Zone, I'm sure. :smiley_aafz:

 

[ultrarunner]

It's arrived at a stage where (Pence in mind) the safe play is to only discuss work-related material. Period.

Beyond that, stick to Name, Rank, Serial #.

Even the weather may not be a safe topic....... "It's hot out there" could be misconstrued.......

Rgds, D.

Corp just sent out a memo regarding Experience of Work and in the memo are tips on team-building... such as establishing a connection by discussing common interests outside work or acknowledging special occasions/events such as birthdays, baby/wedding showers, etc... in other words non work related things...

On one

 

[blackrams]

Corp just sent out a memo regarding Experience of Work and in the memo are tips on team-building... such as establishing a connection by discussing common interests outside work or acknowledging special occasions/events such as birthdays, baby/wedding showers, etc... in other words non work related things...

On one

Maybe with male counter-parts and today, that may not even be safe. :duh: No, that does not make for a happy work place but, it'll also keep me out of trouble, I hope.

Rams

 

[ultrarunner]

A few years back there was a department wedding shower... off the clock but at the Hospital.

All of the participants were women, most all nurses but two of the nurses are men...

The bride to be later apologized to the two male nurses because a few were quite vocal asking if the male nurses were moonlighting as strippers since this was a wedding shower...

The guys took it in stride and said it happens when you are a male working in a female dominated career...

My one point is there is really little difference between some men and some women depending on the environment when it comes to harassment...

 

[Garandman]

Where do I go to find women who will sexually harass me? I値l be brave.

 

[Bird]

It should be noted that I'm a stickler for timeliness. I don't need people who can't be at work on time. If you can't be where you're supposed to be when you're supposed to be there, someone else has to pick up the slack. It's not their job to do your job.

Aah, a man after my own heart. When I started on the police department, the old Inspector who was in charge of the academy told us that when we were assigned to work a beat, the officer getting off duty was not supposed to leave the squad car before the one coming on duty arrived to take it, so it's important that you be on time. He said, "So, we'll start right here in the academy. The first time you're late, be prepared to write a letter to the chief explaining why your couldn't be here on time. And the second time you're late, be prepared to look for a job."

Some years later, as a captain, I was given the responsibility for the auto pound, among other things. I went through the personnel files of all my employees and found a lot of notes in some of the non-sworn employees' files for being late to work. Not long after I took over that job, some of the employees wanted to have a meeting with me, and I readily agreed. They had some legitimate complaints and suggestions that I could help them with, but some also complained about their supervisors putting those notes in their personnel files. And I told them, "Yes, that's going to change. If you're late, someone who was supposed to get off has to stay late. So, instead of notes in your personnel files, there will be days off without pay if you can't get to work on time." I don't think we ever had another case of tardiness.

 

[tcreeley]

When I started teaching in Maine, I asked around when the teachers should be in the classroom. I was told by a few and the policy handbook confirmed it- 30" before students began class.
8:14 students started class. I worked that back to 7:44 am that I should be in the classrooom.
This was in August of the school year. In February the assistant principal asked me why was I late every day. I asked him to explain his question, and reassured him that I was on time.
He noted that teachers were expected to be in the classroom by 7:30 am. He was unaware what the handbook said. From then on I was there by 7:30.

What I always found interesting was that they waited from September to February before speaking to me. - What a world. I worked there for 26 years.

- My wife starting at a new school 3 years earlier asked a fellow teacher where the janitor's closet was, so that she could get a broom. The teacher who she asked was local and had even attended school as a child in the very same building.
She answered my wife's question about the janitor's closet with, - "Where it has always been."

It is hard to take people seriously sometimes. They may take themselves seriously - but they may make it difficult for others to do so!

 

[3Ts]

- My wife starting at a new school 3 years earlier asked a fellow teacher where the janitor's closet was, so that she could get a broom. The teacher who she asked was local and had even attended school as a child in the very same building.
She answered my wife's question about the janitor's closet with, - "Where it has always been."

That's funny and also real life. I moved to New England into an area that were 3rd generation folks. One of the directions I was given was to go down to where the old church used to be and turn right. So does that mean it burned down and there's still the remnants? No, it burned down in 1938 (50 yrs earlier and a different building is now in it's place).

And while we're on stories about harassment and false accusations, here's a true story. There was a substitute teacher for 4th grade came into a local school. He was accussed of "inappropriate behavior" by one of the girls in the classroom. The police were called. It took the police 2 hours to figure out that it was a false accusation and that she had paid some of her classmates $1.00 to back up her story. She was mad at the teacher because he didn't put her at the head of a line. In the meantime, he had been fired and blacklisted. He could not get another job anywhere in the area. He ended up having to sell his house and move someplace else.

 

[3930dave]

Corp just sent out a memo regarding Experience of Work and in the memo are tips on team-building... such as establishing a connection by discussing common interests outside work or acknowledging special occasions/events such as birthdays, baby/wedding showers, etc... in other words non work related things...

On one

Some of the reasons corporations want to "build teams" are to enhance efficiency, and reduce employee turnover. Financial reasons in other words.

They actually need to put those tips in a memo ? Sad. I say that, realizing that my comment (taken in isolation) looks like I need to read it :laughing: . Sales 001 is all that is, in a business context.

You've cited several examples in this thread of women in the workplace exhibiting behaviour that a man would be crucified for, in today's world. It's that volatile asymmetric environment that I was highlighting, by taking an exaggerated stance.....

Rgds, D.