Tiller killing tractor

[aczlan]

Really? I ran a five-foot tiller with my JD 870 (25 hp at PTO) for years and it never knew it had anything behind it.

We run a 5' tiller behind our B7500 HST, have for years. We have tilled enough to wear out a set of tines.
IIRC, it has about 16 PTO HP, it could use more, but with the HST we can just creep along slow enough to let it do its job.

Aaron Z

 

[daugen]

Aaron, do you have a digital dash? Do you know your speed over ground?

Too bad our dashes don't show a power meter of sorts, like task manager on your pc
Modern version of old fashioned vacuum gauge but showing percent of load on motor.
I would love to have one of those. And then good software could calculate the most efficient sweet spot.
I always try to run slow as I can, so sign me up for slow and sweet.

and I'd like another gauge to tell me depth of tillage achieved and alarm if less than 80 percent spec.
The go around and do it again idiot light...

Just because you can do something doesn't mean you should do something, we all know that.
Nor was I trying to insinuate there was anything wrong being done, just trying to state what I think we all want to know and that is "best practice".
OP was alarmed at stalling his tractor when actually it was just talking to him.
Probably saying slow down friend...2mph is too fast for me. :tractor:

I've seen some tillers that appear to have selectable rotation, that would be nice, but until then, we'd need a whole nother
educational piece on forward or reverse rotation decision process. And what rpm to run at, rocks or no rocks? roots or no roots? etc.
Do you prefer safeguarding your equipment sir or would you prefer to run flat out for maximum performance?
I know which one I'd choose...
In low range hydro I think I was running at 1700 rpm. Running on torque, not hp.

And Jeff, Buy Enough Tractor or Buy A Heavy Enough Tractor ??

 

[aczlan]

Aaron, do you have a digital dash? Do you know your speed over ground?

Nope, analog dash. Speed ranges from a fast walk to a crawl, depending on the dirt. Usually the first pass is slow and the 2nd or 3rd pass is faster.
It tills the ground very well, should be even better with the new tines (once I get them installed).

Aaron Z

 

[John_Mc]

OK, this is my first PTO driven tiller, I was going purely off spec sheets to choose. Also I have heard .5 hp per inch, is this not a good rule of thumb?

I don't know about the rule of thumb, but the manufacturer's specs for that tiller are 25-65 PTO HP. LandPride has similar specs for their 74" tiller: 25-60 PTO HP. You should be fine with it, unless you are in some unusually tough conditions (in which case, you can always have someone plow the land for you the first time. Once it has been broken up once, it's easier the next time around.)

 

[Fallon]

You need to maintain your slip clutch annually, if not more.

Last year when I did my annual maintnance on my 5' King Kutter it wouldnt free up & slip. I had all the bolts/springs rattling around loose. So there was 0 pressure holding the clutch together. Stuck a 2x4 into the tines to jam them, then gingerly started up the tractor & PTO. There was a nice lound bang & the front half of the PTO was spinning but the rear was not. So it finally came loose. Shut things down & went to remove the 2x4. One of the tines had cut over half way through the fat side of the board. It cut 2" or so of wood just with the power of the rust holding that clutch together. Add the springs to that & your clutch will never slip.

Always loosen up those bolts & make sure the clutch slips every year. Preferably tighten things up lightly so the plates & clutch material polish each other clean a hair before tightening everything back up to spec.

This year I had issues with the clutch slipping. Just needed to let it cool down & tighten those bolts up a hair (didnt have wrenches & water handy, so I had to head home & come back later). It's better for a clutch to be a bit loose than a bit tight. You can cool it down & tighten it up if its loose. If it's to tight you are likely replacing expensive parts when you find it's to tight (or just get lucky & stall).

 

[TooRow]

Concrete, intact stumps and boulders are going to stop any roto-tiller. Landscapers who till for diverse customers weekly encounter such obstacles all the time. Buried barbed wire is the worst.

Hopefully you have removed the obstacles. A roto-tiller is not a stump grinder. Be prudent.

I agree that is certainly the plan moving forward

 

[TooRow]

I bet slip clutches are some of the most neglected parts of the machinery we use...
I never test mine, keep them clean, often you can't see in there very well.
Completely agree with Jeff, who gives very good advice here, that stalling tractor is nothing.
Better to stall the tractor than break the equipment, something I practice using my PHD at just above engine idle.

Slip clutches are considered the preferred alternative to shear pins. Shear pins are cheap and you can carry spares easily
so I do wonder if the convenience here is worth it long term. Depends upon how often it happens I'm sure.

When I have bought two new Land Pride mowers, one finish, one rough, I asked the selling dealer to reservice the slip clutch.
I'm not sure they did much of anything. In reality, how do you test them without potentially damaging a part?

I don't think that tiller is too big for your tractor. Just go slow; no more than one mph. Unless you are production farmer and you would then have
loosened up the soil with a disc of some sort ahead of time, to me tilling has always been life in the slow lane. I think the fastest I ever went was 1.4 mph.

Takes a while to dial in the right rpm for the job, to find the right torque spot, just enough to get the job done, but not so much power applied
that major failure is more likely than minor failure. I've always felt tiller time was quality seat time and really didn't want to rush to get it done.
Your results shall surely vary.

thanks for the insight and perspective. Yes, My travel is as slow as I can go @ 540. The tiller has not been under powered, I just think the clutch should have let loose before the stall.

 

[TooRow]

daugen thanks, I guess that was an underlying question on sizing.

You are correct I didn't intend to hit anything buried, However I may need to utilize an implement that would discover debris for me before I till. Possibly a middle buster or subsoiler.

 

[TooRow]

Jeff, thanks for all the advice. I will apply it to my routine.

I didn't mean to omit that reverse tine

Right now the soil is moist but not wet on half of what I am tilling and the rest is dryish but not void of moisture.

 

[TooRow]

I run a 6' King Kutter II tiller on my DK 35 just fine.
The slip clutch needs to be adjusted to work properly with your machine.
I have my slip clutch set to slip just before I run out of power or if I hit something that jams it.
The slip clutch also needs to be serviced occasionally to continue working properly.

So the question is how do I adjust it for my PTO hp? Trial and error?

 

[jeff9366]

I may need to utilize an implement that would discover debris for me before I till. Possibly a middle buster or subsoiler.

Walk the area before you till. Probe suspicious places with an old ski pole, or a stick with a spike in the end.

 

[Fallon]

So the question is how do I adjust it for my PTO hp? Trial and error?

You should be able to find the adjustment instructions in your manual. As a practical matter you may need to tweak it a bit. Same principle as starting from scratch.

There are 2 types of clutches. One with bolts & springs holding the clutch plates together. That's the common type. The other one has a metal shell on 2 of the 3 sides.

The common spring one start with it loose & slowly tighten all the bolts half to a quarter turn at a time. Make sure it doesnt slip under normal tilling in hard ground. If you tighten to much it won't slip when needed.

The other type is non-adjustable. If you tighten the nuts on the one end it loosens the clutch to let slip & clean it. You loosen the nuts all the way & its properly adjusted.

 

[LouNY]

If it's the most common type using bolts and springs normal procedure is too back them off all the way, count the threads or turns back them off evenly, when all the way loosened apply power and a load to make it slip to polish the plates then tighten it back to where it was, use it if it still stalls just back it off till it slips and then tighten back a bit and go.
A slip clutch needs to be burned clean seasonally but it's not difficult.
Once set just count the turns to loosen and slip then return to where it was.
So yes there is some trial and error.

 

[daugen]

thanks for the insight and perspective. Yes, My travel is as slow as I can go @ 540. The tiller has not been under powered, I just think the clutch should have let loose before the stall.

You don't have to go the whole 540 rpm, that's a maximum in many cases. I mow roadsides with my LP finish mower at 460 pto rpm and it cuts perfectly.
So you can slow your engine down if you aren't bogging. Hitting an immovable object is totally different.

 

[TooRow]

Fallon, thanks I sure don't want to just keep getting lucky.

I will definitely make sure I can free up the clutch.

In the case of rust holding the friction of the clutch do you or anyone else recommend a penetrating oil when first slipping the clutch?

 

[Fallon]

Fallon, thanks I sure don't want to just keep getting lucky.

I will definitely make sure I can free up the clutch.

In the case of rust holding the friction of the clutch do you or anyone else recommend a penetrating oil when first slipping the clutch?

That's as bad of an idea as piling your brakes. It would likely permanently contaminate the clutch material. At the minimum create a very inconcist as not baseline for adjustment.

The bang of the clutch letting go when half way cutting through a 2x4 was an indication of how stuck things were. Nothing actually was hurt in that process (other than the 2x4). Try & free it by hand first or maybe a prybar on the tines by hand. But engaging the PTO works too.

 

[TooRow]

Got it no penetrating oil.

Yes, I will be doing this tomorrow morning.

 

[DK35vince]

On my tiller To first slip the clutch to make sure it wasn't stuck, just loosen the adjuster bolts, turn on the tiller and stick it in the ground till I see the clutch slip.
Then I snugged the adjuster bolts some and tilled.
If the clutch slipped to easy I tightened them a little more. Kept doing that till I had it set where I like it.
Once set, each year I loosen the slip clutch adjusting bolts (counting the number of turns). I stick the tiller in the ground to force the clutch to slip (making sure it isn't stuck).
Then I retighten the bolts the same number of turns I originally had them set at and go.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Walk the area before you till. Probe suspicious places with an old ski pole, or a stick with a spike in the end.

Are you saying you would "walk and probe" a 20 acre field???

How do you expect to get ANYTHING done??

SR

 

[4570Man]

Are you saying you would "walk and probe" a 20 acre field???

How do you expect to get ANYTHING done??

SR

I’ve heard plenty of other ideas here that equal getting nothing done. If I couldn’t till any rocks I might as well scrap the thing.