Tiller or bottom plow?

[thunder86]

Looking to trade in my tractor and considering trading in my tiller with it to get a bottom plow instead. I'm definitely getting a heavy disc and I feel once the initial tilling/plow has been done all I'll ever do is disc.
Discing to enhance native forbs. Food plot would be clover/chicory/radish mix. Turnips. Maybe oats/wheat. I feel if I wanted to change these up once its been worked a previous year a disc would be all I'd ever need. I'm not a farmer and inexperienced in food plots yet. Thanks.
Maybe I should I keep the tiller for now then sell once it's all been worked and have disc only?
Don't wanna have a regret.

 

[sea2summit]

Why do you think you need to disturb the soil any deeper than the disks will reach?

 

[Avenger]

Here is my philosophy: You can never have too many implements, and you'll probably regret your choices no matter what advise you take. Sad, I know. There are a ton of things I wish I'd done differently. Monday Moring Quarterback, hind sight is 20/20. That sort of thing.

But to get to the root of your dilemma.

If I understand this correctly, you are looking to turn an area into dirt to create a food plot? You have a tractor with a tiller. You want to get a plow and a disc?
How much space are we talking here? Do you have obstacles on this property? Is it sloped?

Plowing is great for hitting that reset button. But on a slop can cause some nasty erosion if not done properly. Also, plowing is great for fields or plots without a bunch of things in the way, like trees, rocks, etc. Whereas, simply tilling the plot, you can easily move around these obstacles and is a bit more forgiving with slops.
Running a disc is great, but you will probably need to drag a harrow or cultipacker behind it to further smooth out the soil. A tiller will do this automatically.
However, a tiller is slow.

I posted a thread on a similar subject, here: Plowing with LS

To update that threat, which I should probably do, the owner recently sold that property for huge profit. The new neighbors have yet to move in. I don't know what is going to happen.
But to summarize, It was a large open field, with some slopes, that would take too long to till with my 6ft tiller. I was looking to pull a plow though it, then disc it smooth before planting. I was only considering this because it is a large area. A food plot, depending on size, you may just get away with only tilling it. Save money on the purchase of a new plow and disc.

 

[jeff9366]

Why do you think you need to disturb the soil any deeper than the disks will reach?

While there are exceptions, 90% of the time a moldboard plow and a disc harrow with at least 20" diameter pans penetrate to about the same depth ~~ 6" to 8".

The plow inverts the soil. The plow should cut through sod which the disc harrow cannot cut. Plow adjustment takes quite a while to learn.

The disc harrow mixes and smooths the soil, where a plow disrupts the soil. Easy to learn disc adjustments.


Food plots seeds are eager germinators. In most instances, plowing is unnecessary; discing is enough soil prep. It is important to get a soil test to determine soil pH before ordering seed. If soil pH is not compatible with the seed type, seed germination will be low or nonexistent.

Most seeds like mildly acidic soil, pH 5 to pH 6. Legumes, especially clover, can flourish in higher pH soil pH to about pH7 and do pretty well with some shade.

If choosing between a plow or a cultipacker, get the cultipacker.


Maybe I should I keep the tiller for now then sell once it's all been worked and have disc only?

Neither a 1,700 pound B2601 nor a 2,700 pound L3901 have enough weight to pull a heavy disc. Keep the roto-tiller. It is tractor weight you need for ground contact work. Engine horsepower is secondary. It takes a doubling of compact tractor weight before you notice a big difference from one tractor to another in ground contact work.

 

[wolc123]

A plow and disk combination is generaly better than a tiller in rocky soil and in areas greater than about 3/4 acre in size.

 

[HEC]

I have and use all 3 plus a 6 ft. spring tooth harrow , the only time I use the plow is when I am going to have a new garden plot on sod ground . I agree with the previous post , no way are you going to drag a heavy disc with the 2601 . I have a 6ft. light duty disc and that does work with my 2650 . I do have flat ground so that does make a big difference too . I like going over my garden plot with the spring tooth harrow in the spring when the ground is a little to damp to till as it helps it to dry up quicker and is easier to till . I live in the north where thigs freeze up and it takes time for the soil to warm up . Not sure you should give up the tiller . Not sure how much ground you are going to plant but with a 1 bottom plow and your tiller you will be surprised what that 2601 can do . It will just take you a little longer . I don't use the plow that often but it is one of my favorite things to with my tractor .

 

[3gunr]

I have way more implements than i need . 2 tillers 5 and 6 ft multiple disks a cultivator a plow and a cultipacker. The plow i quit using at least ten yrs ago. The tiller is by far the best tool for food plots in not to rocky soil. The main thing that must be done is to kill the current vegetation and let the roots decompose for a while in the soil , It makes for much easier tillage no matter what you use, Plows work great on packed virgin soil , but as others have said it will take a good heavy disk and lots of passes to get it smooth. I till about 3 to 4 acres a yr for my food plots and it takes mots of a day . But i love doing it.

 

[Sergei1]

Looking to trade in my tractor and considering trading in my tiller with it to get a bottom plow instead. I'm definitely getting a heavy disc and I feel once the initial tilling/plow has been done all I'll ever do is disc.
Discing to enhance native forbs. Food plot would be clover/chicory/radish mix. Turnips. Maybe oats/wheat. I feel if I wanted to change these up once its been worked a previous year a disc would be all I'd ever need. I'm not a farmer and inexperienced in food plots yet. Thanks.
Maybe I should I keep the tiller for now then sell once it's all been worked and have disc only?
Don't wanna have a regret.

My only question is how large and area are you looking to make in to food plots. The size is going to determine what would be better.
I use a two bottom plow and it takes time to set it up and biggest thing I've found is type of tires you use.

 

[thunder86]

I would say 2 acres total food plots. Initially I'll have more getting switchgrass in but I'm looking to just run 10 foot strips around it. I'll disc a few acres to enhance native forbs but that won't be every year. I would say constant every year less than 2 acres.

 

[thunder86]

Why do you think you need to disturb the soil any deeper than the disks will reach?

If I could get by with disc alone that would be great. I just figured if I ever wanted to change a plot it would be nice to have a tiller or plow, especially for the initial breaking of the ground first time.

 

[thunder86]

Here is my philosophy: You can never have too many implements, and you'll probably regret your choices no matter what advise you take. Sad, I know. There are a ton of things I wish I'd done differently. Monday Moring Quarterback, hind sight is 20/20. That sort of thing.

But to get to the root of your dilemma.

If I understand this correctly, you are looking to turn an area into dirt to create a food plot? You have a tractor with a tiller. You want to get a plow and a disc?
How much space are we talking here? Do you have obstacles on this property? Is it sloped?

Plowing is great for hitting that reset button. But on a slop can cause some nasty erosion if not done properly. Also, plowing is great for fields or plots without a bunch of things in the way, like trees, rocks, etc. Whereas, simply tilling the plot, you can easily move around these obstacles and is a bit more forgiving with slops.
Running a disc is great, but you will probably need to drag a harrow or cultipacker behind it to further smooth out the soil. A tiller will do this automatically.
However, a tiller is slow.

I posted a thread on a similar subject, here: Plowing with LS

To update that threat, which I should probably do, the owner recently sold that property for huge profit. The new neighbors have yet to move in. I don't know what is going to happen.
But to summarize, It was a large open field, with some slopes, that would take too long to till with my 6ft tiller. I was looking to pull a plow though it, then disc it smooth before planting. I was only considering this because it is a large area. A food plot, depending on size, you may just get away with only tilling it. Save money on the purchase of a new plow and disc.

Most my work will be in a 10 acre flat fallow field. My woods plot I feel I'd have decent luck with a using rip teeth off a box blade or eventually getting a spring tine harrow. Should have good luck with small seed such as clover/turnips.

 

[thunder86]

While there are exceptions, 90% of the time a moldboard plow and a disc harrow with at least 20" diameter pans penetrate to about the same depth ~~ 6" to 8".

The plow inverts the soil. The plow should cut through sod which the disc harrow cannot cut. Plow adjustment takes quite a while to learn.

The disc harrow mixes and smooths the soil, where a plow disrupts the soil. Easy to learn disc adjustments.


Food plots seeds are eager germinators. In most instances, plowing is unnecessary; discing is enough soil prep. It is important to get a soil test to determine soil pH before ordering seed. If soil pH is not compatible with the seed type, seed germination will be low or nonexistent.

Most seeds like mildly acidic soil, pH 5 to pH 6. Legumes, especially clover, can flourish in higher pH soil pH to about pH7 and do pretty well with some shade.

If choosing between a plow or a cultipacker, get the cultipacker.


Maybe I should I keep the tiller for now then sell once it's all been worked and have disc only?

Neither a 1,700 pound B2601 nor a 2,700 pound L3901 have enough weight to pull a heavy disc. Keep the roto-tiller. It is tractor weight you need for ground contact work. Engine horsepower is secondary. It takes a doubling of compact tractor weight before you notice a big difference from one tractor to another in ground contact work.

I am looking at a L3901 with backhoe. Disc though I'm looking at DH1060 which is 549 pounds. If I add 200 pounds of weight to that disc I'd have 47 pounds per disc going into ground. That's equivalent to DH2572 disc.
What pound is considered a "heavy" disc? My plots initially worked from a tiller should be broken ground making it easier? Disc fallow field for native forbs requires 50% disturbance from what I have read.

 

[MHarryE]

No combination fits all. I have soil classified as loamy clay. It doesn't break up well. Would love to get away from moldboard plow but I can't so its plow, disc twice, cultivate twice (if weather permits) and let mother nature finish the job with freeze/thaw over winter. Leaves nice, mellow soil for planting. However, garden area heavy with rotten manure really needs the tiller. When I've opened new areas to switch garden spots, its been plow, manure, disk, cultivate, and till next spring before planting. I've tried just tilling for food plots with poor results - in my soil. My wife's brother in Missouri, entirely different soil conditions and many acres of vegetables only uses tillers plus gets manure trucked in from neighboring beef farmers.

 

[jeff9366]

1) I am looking at a L3901 with backhoe. Disc though I'm looking at DH1060 which is 549 pounds. If I add 200 pounds of weight to that disc I'd have 47 pounds per disc going into ground. That's equivalent to DH2572 disc. Disc fallow field for native forbs requires 50% disturbance from what I have read.

You may be able to slowly pull a Land Pride Disc Harrow with 7-1/2" pan spacing, weighted with 200 pounds, over flat ground to achieve 50% ground disturbance with a 2,800 pound bare weight tractor in one pass but you would not have leveling benefit from harrowing at a brisk pace.

The L3901is light. Loading the rear tires will help apply the 39 - horsepower to the ground.

I am skeptical you could accomplish more than one pass. When the ground is soft, after a first pass, both the tractor and harrow pans sink into the soft ground, increasing draft force resistance and reducing traction.

Do you realize the Backhoe has to come off before you can mount a Disc Harrow on the Three Point Hitch?

If you price out an L3901 relative to a Kubota MX5400 you may be pleasantly surprised that the MX is not a lot more money.

If you need to stay with an L3901 consider a Disc Plow rather than a Disc Harrow.
A Disc Plow is a primary tillage implement. A Disc Harrow is a secondary tillage implement.

Tufline – Well Built, Performance Driven Implements

monroetufline.com

2) What pound is considered a "heavy" disc?

Some say a Disc Harrow with 37 pounds bearing on each pan is adequate for opening ground. Not I.

In my view a Disc Harrow with 37 pounds bearing on each pan is adequate for smoothing plow furrows in an established field if the operator is will to make three to four passes over the plowed ground to knock down the plow furrows. It is adequate to maintain a large kitchen garden if the kitchen garden is mixed Spring and Fall.

My opinion is that 50 pounds bearing on each pan is minimum effective weight but such a Disc Harrow will require many, many passes over the ground to cut through and mix established vegetation.

Better is 60 pounds bearing on each pan.

A heavy disc has 80 pounds or more bearing on each pan.

 

[thunder86]

You may be able to slowly pull a Land Pride Disc Harrow with 7-1/2" pan spacing, weighted with 200 pounds, over flat ground to achieve 50% ground disturbance with a 2,800 pound bare weight tractor in one pass but you would not have leveling benefit from harrowing at a brisk pace.

The L3901is light. Loading the rear tires will help apply the 39 - horsepower to the ground.

I am skeptical you could accomplish more than one pass. When the ground is soft, after a first pass, both the tractor and harrow pans sink into the soft ground, increasing draft force resistance and reducing traction.

Do you realize the Backhoe has to come off before you can mount a Disc Harrow on the Three Point Hitch?

If you price out an L3901 relative to a Kubota MX5400 you may be pleasantly surprised that the MX is not a lot more money.

If you need to stay with an L3901 consider a Disc Plow rather than a Disc Harrow.
A Disc Plow is a primary tillage implement. A Disc Harrow is a secondary tillage implement.

Tufline – Well Built, Performance Driven Implements

monroetufline.com

Some say a Disc Harrow with 37 pounds bearing on each pan is adequate for opening ground. Not I.

In my view a Disc Harrow with 37 pounds bearing on each pan is adequate for smoothing plow furrows in an established field if the operator is will to make three to four passes over the plowed ground to knock down the plow furrows. It is adequate to maintain a large kitchen garden if the kitchen garden is mixed Spring and Fall.

My opinion is that 50 pounds bearing on each pan is minimum effective weight but such a Disc Harrow will require many, many passes over the ground to cut through and mix established vegetation.

Better is 60 pounds bearing on each pan.

A heavy disc has 80 pounds or more bearing on each pan.

You think the ground would be too soft to make the 2nd or 3rd pass if needed from the first pass? Something I didn't think about. Around October is when I'd disc for the native forbs through thick vegetation and it's pretty dry that time of year.

Yes the backhoe must come off and I realize that takes effort and I have to keep my lanes managed as I run my beagles for rabbits sometime once a week.

I see the points on previous post on your recommendation on getting an MX and it being same price as an L3901 with a backhoe. I fully understand weight and the tires will be loaded. There's a lot of uses for a backhoe on the property as I do have drainage issues I could manage on my own along with the rocks/stumps for extra food plots. The field alone I'm getting will have to have drain tile and a wash out fixed. I could easily pay for the backhoe by the time I hired out.

In the end though the brush hog and disc will be used for life of the property. If I do go with this setup, should I get notched disc up front and smooth in the rear? Or notched both front and rear? Thanks.