Tiller vs my yard

[Ram4x4]

Ok, might be strange thread, but...

I hate my yard. I have a "mowable yard" area that currently takes me about 8 full hours of mowing with my beat old 18HP 42" riding mower. It's in the plans to buy a nice, big 72" cut ZT next year (wife has finally come to terms with the cost of such mower as one of her biggest complaints is that we never have time for other things in the summer...) anyway...

My yard is rough...very rough. I bang and bounce along on my rider now and I'm afraid the speed advantage of a big ZT will be nullified as I'll have to crawl along to keep from beating myself and the mower to death.

So, I got this crazy idea....get a tiller for my Mahindra, till the whole freakin thing up, smooth it out (I have a small roller) and plant new grass. I will do it in sections as doing the whole thing at once would be too much work and too costly for grass seed.

Has anyone ever tried this? Worth the effort?

 

[tman1020]

Have you ever considered reducing how much you r mowing by putting in a natural prairie or wood lot? Better for your wallet, better for your family time and better for the environment. They can be a nice way to see more wildlife also. They can be installed with very little effort or be very complex. Most times in small stages.


As far as tilling up entire yard goes. Yes it can work but I would first figure out why its bumpy. If it's moles or rocks or erosion it will come right back.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I can certainly identify with that. I have some areas in my yard that are infested with crawfish and the mounds just keep making it rougher and rougher. Even on my Ferris IS 700Z with a spring over shock suspension system, I cant run full speed on it. I am in the thought process of how I can smooth it out without completely destroying it. I tried disking up a section, then pulling a drag over it to level it out and it worked (kinda) but the grass kept gathering in clumps on the drag which had to be spread out and the grass removed. I tried using my landscape rake but it too gathered up all the grass into piles. I finally got most of the grass/dirt clumps pulled into a low spot and semi-spread out level. I sowed seed to replace the grass but it took a couple of years for it to establish a fair grass structure. The area was in a pond drainage area so it stayed pretty wet for most of the year following my work which was done during a drought period.

I even thought of renting an asphalt rolling machine to roll out the yard with which may have worked but would seem to have to be just the right time when ground was damp but not soft enough to sink the roller but still soft enough to roll out the humps. So far I have just kept bouncing over the rough ground with the mower and wishing I knew how to kill those darned crawfish.

 

[blucoondawg]

I have a somewhat rough yard, I have a varied soil here with rocks from baseball to basketball size mixed in with clay and some areas small patches of sand. I am going to try using a heavy roller in the spring when the ground is damp to push the rocks back down, if it works it won't be a big deal to do it every few years, but tearing the whole darn thing out and starting over could be much more fun!

 

[AchingBack]

Rototilling an existing lawn without killing the existing grass first is a bad idea. Here's why: The live clumps of grass get buried at random depths throughout the soil. It takes a long time for the root wads to decompose, especially those nearest the surface. Many of the clumps will continue to grow after they've been tilled in.

When you plant new seed and the rootlets try to penetrate the old grass clumps, they stop growing. Your new lawn may look okay in the beginning, but before long it will probably be worse than the old one.

I was a landscape contractor for over 25 years. I've seen more failed lawns than successful ones. Most of them were due to eliminated steps or improper procedures in the installation process. You will never have a great lawn unless you have a great root system, lots of organic materials in the top 8" of the seed bed is essential.

If I were doing the job, I'd let the entire lawn area die before going in there with a tiller. If you are in a hurry, you can spray glyphosate in order to thoroughly kill existing lawn, including the roots. Then do your tilling, amending the soil as needed.

 

[AchingBack]

Duplicate post

 

[KTurner]

till the whole freakin thing up, smooth it out (I have a small roller) and plant new grass. I will do it in sections as doing the whole thing at once would be too much work and too costly for grass seed.

This is part question, part comment. Wouldn't doing this wake up a bunch of weeds? Just casual observation, but when the dirt gets disturbed around here, the weeds seem to come back with a vengeance - especially this year for some reason.

Keith

 

[AchingBack]

This is part question, part comment. Wouldn't doing this wake up a bunch of weeds? Just casual observation, but when the dirt gets disturbed around here, the weeds seem to come back with a vengeance - especially this year for some reason.

Keith

Indeed, the weeds will awaken. However if you do the job in the fall, the weeds aren't active, and by the time they are, if the lawn is built correctly, the grass should be strong enough to choke out weeds emerging in the spring.

 

[Rocky Hoffler]

I have been considering doing the same thing to my yard about 3 acres built house 11 years ago and yard was relative smooth then but now with roots and stuff that was buried it has gotten rough I thinking of spraying with a genertic roundup let it die this winter till it up drag smooth let it lie for a while smooth it out again luckily for me the grass grows here about 9 months a year reseed and see what happens I am retiring first of year and will need something to do might change my user name to call me crazy.

 

[jeff9366]

No underground irrigation system in your yard? Utility conduits deep enough?

You can buy a 6' to 7' wide PTO powered tiller to loosen up the soil in your yard. The advantage of the tiller would be in doing a section at a time and you will not necessarily need to follow tiller with a Disc Harrow.

Is tilling down 5" going to do it?

You are going to need a Box Blade or Rear/Angle Blade or Heavy Duty York Rake to re-distribute the soil. The latter two best with gauge wheels. You can use the roller to compress new grass seed into the bed.

Pennsylvania is one state where plows are still used. What about hiring someone to plow and Disc Harrow the entire yard? Or buy a single bottom 16" Moldboard Plow, which will allow you to turn everything under from 7" - 9" deep? You probably do not want more than a single bottom plow; multiple bottom plows take time to learn to adjust. If you plow you will need to follow plow with a Disc Harrow several times, then roll.

In my opinion you will loose the grass you have now with either tiller or plow route.

I advise a soil test and amending per recommendations.

 

[jenkinsph]

Right now is the perfect time to fix your lawn.
I would till it deep
smooth and grade with box blade
dress up with land plane grader blade
harrow it with a section type or chain drag
seed it heavy
cover with spike tooth harrow or my choice a pine straw rake
roll it to compact the seed
water it and keep it damp for two weeks or so till the seed is germinated.

that is what I did after cleaning up debris, and removing trees and stumps. Here is a picture after completion.

 

[jeff9366]

Ooh-La-La!

 

[Gator6x4]

If your tractor is 45 PTO Horse Power or larger, rent a Harley Rake and run over the yard. Follow this with a landscape rake, preferably with the depth gauge wheels. This will give you a sod ready yard or a table top smooth surface to sow grass seed.

If not familiar with Harley Rakes, do a internet search. Several videos are available showing them in use.

 

[crazyal]

My yard was a pain too. I borrowed a 6' disk from one of the local farmers and ran that over the lawn for a few hours to really cut the sod up. I have lots of rocks and a few old roots that came out of the ground. For them I used a ratchet rake a couple of times to remove them. The I used my land plane to smooth it back out. A tiller would work but I think I would back drag with your bucket vs packing it down too much with a roller. With a tiller you could till in some fertilizer with weed killer on the last pass. Just don't go deep on that last pass so the fertilizer will stay close to the surface. One thing I found out is grass seed is not cheap. We have a local garden/ ag place that sells seed by what ever size you want (kind of like the old hardware stores that had scales and brown paper bags for nails and screws) vs the big box stores. I was able to buy large 100 lb bags that weren't marked for retail by a local seed company that was mixed correctly for my location.

 

[coobie]

Ok, might be strange thread, but...

I hate my yard. I have a "mowable yard" area that currently takes me about 8 full hours of mowing with my beat old 18HP 42" riding mower. It's in the plans to buy a nice, big 72" cut ZT next year (wife has finally come to terms with the cost of such mower as one of her biggest complaints is that we never have time for other things in the summer...) anyway...

My yard is rough...very rough. I bang and bounce along on my rider now and I'm afraid the speed advantage of a big ZT will be nullified as I'll have to crawl along to keep from beating myself and the mower to death.

So, I got this crazy idea....get a tiller for my Mahindra, till the whole freakin thing up, smooth it out (I have a small roller) and plant new grass. I will do it in sections as doing the whole thing at once would be too much work and too costly for grass seed.

Has anyone ever tried this? Worth the effort?

If you purchase a ZTR next year I would buy a Ferris.IMHO they have the best suspension in the business.I would buy or rent a 5 or 7 shank ripper and rip up the lawn and finish with a York rake to clean up the debris.Then a heavy lawn roller.

 

[Stonehaller]

If your tractor is 45 PTO Horse Power or larger, rent a Harley Rake and run over the yard. Follow this with a landscape rake, preferably with the depth gauge wheels. This will give you a sod ready yard or a table top smooth surface to sow grass seed.

If not familiar with Harley Rakes, do a internet search. Several videos are available showing them in use.

A Harley rake is the way to go.

I did what OP is proposing a couple of years ago. Killed of the existing grass, rototilled, used a box blade to change the grade for better drainage and then a landscape rake with gage wheels. It was a lot of work as the rototiller really did not break up the grass roots into small enough clumps to allow smooth grading. I ended up hauling away so many clumps (with dirt attached) that I piled up with the rake that I had to get more top soil brought in.

I am currently doing another section of yard and this time a bought a used Harley rake with gage wheels and fixed it up. The Harley rake is amazing. It will bust up root clumps, separating the dirt from the roots. The rake will windrow roots, rocks and other debris to make it easier to pick up and leave all the top soil behind. It does an excellent job leveling a rough area. I was doing some minor grade changes again and never even bothered with the box blade. I moved fill dirt around and rough spread with the loader, grabbed the piles with the Harley rake and it spread and leveled.

I am running a 6 foot rake with my L39 (30 HP PTO) and it powers the rake fine.

 

[Deere Dude]

How is your lawn riding across with your big tractor? I'm thinking that a big mower will be comfortable enough to mow with successfully and quickly so no lawn tear up would have to be done. Get it, try it and go from there.

 

[Ken45101]

I don't really feel that a tiller, or a plow, is the best approach.

A disk, maybe, followed by something to smooth it out (I've used old chain link fence with some heavy timbers on it in the past but a landscape rake with gage wheels is very good.)

Although I've never used or actually seen one, from everything I read, a Harley rake is the best approach. If all else fails, you could rent a skid steer with one for a day.

A good, heavy landplane might be another option, whether or not you chew up the surface first. But it would take many more passes than a Harley rake.

Your fears are well grounded, a zero turn rides very rough on rough ground. On some of our "lawn" (was horse pasture), I do just as well or better getting out the old B2710 tractor with mid mount mower. It's definitely a better ride.

 

[jenkinsph]

Once you grade the lawn area and get it smoothed out you can use a rotary tiller, disc or Harley rake to prepare a good seedbed. All of these will do a good job with it. I would be more concerned with which one I had available to utilize. I bought a tiller and have used it and like it because in moving my equipment around on jobs being compact is important to me. I wouldn't get lost in the arm chair discussions here.

Proper grading of the lawn area will make mowing much faster and easier to do. You will be able to mow at much higher speeds if the ride is smooth an the cut will look much better if the mower deck isn't jumping up and down.
Here are some recent pictures of a small pasture after grading with my box blade, it is smooth enough to run a ztr at a fast mowing speed.
Will be planting this patch this week or weekend.

 

[xtruckerbob]

My wife and I mow about 10 acres (2 acres in yard the rest was pasture) which was as rough as a scrub board. To smooth it out I sprayed Roundup on it, waited 2 weeks and sprayed it again. I waited about 2 more weeks till I had an area of really dead grass and weeds. I then pulled my disc over it 2 times cutting it 3 to 4 inches deep. This mulched all grass and weeds to a point where there is no weeds, root balls or excess grass to hang up. Afterward I pulled a row conditioner over it a couple of times followed by a roller. I put 500 pounds of 13 13 13 per acre and I now have a lush area of Bermuda grass mixed with Bahia grass which was all volunteer. Our area is almost as smooth as a golf course.