Tilt no mo'

[jinman]

Tilt no mo\'

I was using my subsoiler today to dig up some shallow roots in brush when I heard a crack and looked back to see that a lynch-pin had been plucked out of the left lower link. As a result the arm came off the pin and the subsoiler twisted. the stress was enough on the remaining right lift arm to snap the welded-on fork off the bottom of my tilt cylinder (see attachment). I think the weld should have been a lot better than the picture shows, but all things considered, it will be an easy repair. I'll also take this opportunity to take about 1-1/2" off the cylinder's rod because it's about that much too long.

The way I figure it is if you work in brush enough, you are going to have these things happen from time to time. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif

 

[JimR]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Grind a large bevel on the end of your piston rod before you weld it up. It will not break the next time.

 

[johndeere2210]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

I don't know for sure, but I think that if this is a two-way cylinder you could damage the piston and/or piston seals by shortening the cylinder rod. It will bottom out in the retracted position before the piston bottoms out inside the cylinder. Maybe some one else knows more about it, but I think I would check it out. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[beenthere]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

I have replaced most of my lynch pins with ¼" bolts and lock nuts, just for that reason. Have had too many get torn loose by brush, and have heard of disasters much more expensive than yours. You were lucky, as was I, when I lost mine.

It is not often that several of the lynch pins need to be quickly removed, so the bolts (of which I have only had to remove one) are not much of a nuisance to me. But they stay put.

 

[theonlybull]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

actually, by the looks of the cyl, if you shorten it that much, it will bottom out on the end of the cyl ( which isn't a real big deal) but the weld will try to go under the end seal, and will ruin your seal.

push your piston all the way in, and mark where it enters the seal. then pull it all the way out b4 welding, and make sure nothing goes past that mark, or you'll have troubles.

 

[PineRidge]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Jim I look at you as our TBN test pilot for Class III Boomer's, if it's a weak part you are sure to find it. /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif I'm not implying that you are hard on your equipment as I know better, simply put you use your equipment it doesn't grow dust from sitting unused.

Sorry you had a problem but it sounds to me that you were needing an excuse to shorten that cylinder anyway. Another member made mention to bevel the piston rod before making the weld and we think that's the best way to make a strong repair. Time to brush up on the stick welder.

 

[MikePA]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

<font color="blue">It will not break the next time. </font>
Nope, something else will. /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

 

[jinman]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

JimR: </font><font color="blue" class="small">( Grind a large bevel on the end of your piston rod before you weld it up. )</font>

You are exactly right, Jim. I didn't mention anything about it, but I think my TISCO cylinder should have been welded much better. My welder and my level of experience are not that good, but my NH dealer has excellent welding in his shop. I'm going to take the cylinder to them and ask that the rod be cut and beveled before being rewelded.

MikePA, it might break somewhere else, but I don't think that's a good reason to not make the best weld possible. I don't really think that's what you meant, but you are right that the weakest part will always give up under stress. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

johndeere2210 & theonlybull: Thanks! Your advice is excellent. It turns out that the rod has 5" sticking out when fully retracted. I'm baffled as to why the cylinder had about twice as much rod as needed for it's full travel. Maybe that was to keep heat away from the seals while welding on the end of the rod. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif Anyway, after I shorten the rod, it will still have over 3" to spare when retracted.

beenthere: I change implements a lot. Yesterday, I had a boxblade, two different style bale spears, and the subsoiler on my 3PH in a period of less than two hours. Generally, with my boxblade and bale spears, there is no danger of getting the lynchpins plucked out. I had a brainstorm and decided to try the subsoiler to grub up some roots. It's pins are very exposed and my decision to use the cheap, 3-for-a-$1 lynchpins was a mistake. Your method of using bolts is one I've used before. Also I use a hairpins and push them all the way through when I run my rotary cutter. I've found lynchpins that cost $1.50 ea are much better, but don't get your finger caught in them. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif I'm attaching a picture of the "good, bad, and ugly" pins. The brass color pin is cheap and ends up like the stack of bad/ugly pins in the upper left of the picture. The larger pin is much better and the hairpin is almost foolproof when pushed all the way down into the big loop. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

PineRidge: TBN test pilot? Hmm... Doesn't that pay twice as much as a TBN moderator? I'll be rich! /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[MadReferee]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Grind a large bevel on the end of your piston rod before you weld it up. It will not break the next time. )</font>

All the beveling in the world will not help if you don't get proper penetration. Having an experienced welder weld the fork to the hard piston is a good idea.

 

[MikePA]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

<font color="blue">but you are right that the weakest part will always give up under stress. </font> \
Yep, that's what I meant. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif Whenever I repair something and think about strengthening it, I try and figure out if the same stress is applied in the future, what 'new part' will break. /forums/images/graemlins/shocked.gif

 

[Dargo]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Along ths line of MadReferee, I have to agree from my welding experience that the weld was wrong. First, with a hardened cylinder, you need a very high heat when welding. Second, you cannot use a general purpose 6013 rod for high strength purposes. I would venture to guess by the looks of the initial pic you put up, that the weld was made with a 6013 rod at an amperage of no more than 120. That would hold it on, and work for most instances. However, when under stress, it will be the first to break. Could it have been part of the design; to break there before breaking a more expensive hydro rod? I don't know.

I would just remember that when you get it welded. I guarantee you I could weld it to where it won't break. However, you may have a more expensive repair if the same situation happened again and the weld didn't break. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif It may be something you want to discuss with whoever you have weld it. I'm sure they can use a much stronger rod with much higher amperage to get proper penetration, but do you want that?

I went and looked in my barn (had to go out there anyway), and the rods I have for welding hardened steel (like your hydro ram) are 9018 rods. My rods are only 1/8", but I burn them at about 230 amps DC when welding hard stuff and I need a good bite. My dad has a much bigger welder, and he can burn 1/4" 9018 rods. I tried one of those rods with my welder all the way up, and there was no way! I guess for your application you definitely wouldn't need a 1/4" rod. /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif The best I can tell, they only seem to be needed when you are welding at least 1/2" thick steel together. They make some 1018 rods, but they would likely melt the mild steel fork that goes on the end of the hydro ram. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

 

[Bluecheck546]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Hi, jinman and all. Looking on the picture attached in the first post I think possibly is good thing that the weld broke, possibly saved your cylinder rod. The reason for my way of thinking that is I don't see a swivel on end of the rod, and something had to give. When your implement come loose it was too much sideload for the weld. Someone mentioned about wrong rod being used to weld this clevis in.... True 7018 rod would be better for the weld, but the 6013 is plenty sufficient, when welded right it holds up to 60000 pounds. My2¢. Back in the box i go.

 

[Dargo]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Bluecheck546, yup, you have the same idea I have. It is very possible that the weld was designed to be the "weak link" in the design.

 

[jinman]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( The reason for my way of thinking that is I don't see a swivel on end of the rod, and something had to give. When your implement come loose it was too much sideload for the weld. )</font>

Thanks to everyone again for your suggestions and comments.

I don't think there was a side load at all on the right link. I had my stabilizers pinned and they took any sideload. Also, the top of the tilt cylinder has a ball-link and the bottom a fork just like the factory links. What I think happened was the left side dropped down and twisted the still attached right lift arm around its axis inside the fork. Instead of the fork expanding/widening, the weld on the end of rod broke off. You can see from the attached photo that the cylinder's rod is actually larger (and probably harder) than the OEM link. The fork is also much larger (see attachment). This photo is when I was "fitting up" my tilt cylinder. I replaced the bolt with the proper pin. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

It's very hard to guess all the "what ifs" involved, but I don't think you can possibly guess every unusual situation that could come from equipment coming loose. The ideal thing in this case is to get the cylinder repaired (better if possible) and to spend some real thought into making sure my 3PH stays hitched properly in the future. /forums/images/graemlins/blush.gif

BTW: I really do appreciate all the insight into welding rods and their uses. I learn something every time I log onto TBN. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[HayDR]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

Bluecheck546,
I agree that a 7018 is a better choice. Many people use 6013 rods because they are easy to make a good looking weld but a 6011 would be better than a 6013. Turn the heat up to 120+ amps and use DC with a nickel composition rod because the vibration in the application needs the elasticity of the nickel.

 

[Bluecheck546]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

CCi, I appreciate the advice. Newer used the 6011 rod. Mainly because my machine at home is an AC welder and at work I seldom weld anymore, if I do, I use 7018 rod cause the thickness of the material, 3/8 or thicker. Thanks for the info. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[jinman]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

I'm glad you weighed-in on this, Mark. It reminded me that I need to get in touch with you about a new toplink. Mine is just "okay" and I'd much prefer to have one of yours with the piloted check valve and some small 1/4" hoses. I'll try to give you a call tomorrow. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

BTW: Bluecheck, don't you have to keep 7018 rods in an oven or heat them before use to drive off the moisture? How does that equate to ease of use in the field? I thought they were mostly an "in shop" rod, but I'm a real rookie, so I could easily be wrong. /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[Inspector507]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

6011 is a good penetrating rod and it works okay with AC. Watch out for burn through though /forums/images/graemlins/crazy.gif

 

[Dargo]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

I use 7018 rods frequently for somewhat high strength applications. The rods are not really that sensitive. Baking them in an oven is how to try to "repair" some that have absorbed some moisture. I generally do not keep a large supply on hand and just drive a mile down the road to a welding supply house and buy what I need for the project. I've kept some in an aluminum canister for over a year and they worked fine.

 

[Bluecheck546]

Re: Tilt no mo\'

jinman, you are right, those should be keep t in dry container. At work we keep them in special cabinet with a 100 watt light bulb, on 24/7 , Few sticks that I use at home occasionally I keep wrapped in the plastic bag, keep them inside. Have no problem using them this way at all. My2¢ /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif