Time to move a couple small stones...

[bcr495]

sorry to hijack.

But going the feather and wedge route. Where is everybody buying these? or are you having them made up at a welder???

I have acouple of big rocks to break, so I order some feather and wedges. Biggest I've found was for a 1" hole. I buy four@$20 a piece. I didn't want to spend alot of money :-( Well you guess'ed it, 4 won't do much. SO how much money would Doug need to spend to be able to spit these rocks??

Oh yeah to add more shame, I've got 2 stuck :-(

 

[Dougster]

OK - I've thought it over at length, and I think you are definately taking the wrong approach. Forget killing yourself with conventional methods that have a slight chance of working. If it was in your own backyard, and you were trying to keep your expense to zero, then I'd say go for it, but since this is a paying job, I'd go right for the easiest method. Sub it out to a blasting company and have the rocks pulverized. Not only will it be effective, but I can't think of anything that brings fun into a workday as much as blowing things up.
JayC

You guys just love to goof on me... don't ya???

If it were in my back yard, the "dig a big hole" trick would have worked just fine... that is, until the GF saw me digging it and stopped everything because she decided she wants them suckers dragged out front and kept as a "lawn decorations"!

Yes, my worst nightmare...

Dougster

 

[Diamondpilot]

I have read all these post and just wonder how big these rocks are. I have a 28HP 4 wheel drive and good old ag tires. I have moved rocks as big or bigger than washing machines by just working around it with the FEL and pushing them or pulling them with straps and chains. 2 years ago I had a solid piece of marble that was bigger than a washing machine my neighbors boy wanted. He showed up at my house with a newer Dodge 3/4 ton diesel pulling a 10K equipment trailer. We lowered the ramps and pushed them towards the center of the trailer. As I proceeded to push the rock on the trailer it made it about 3/4 of the way up the ramps when the trucks rear wheels lifted completely of the ground 4 feet or so. I pulled the rock off with a strap and had him pull the trailer in a ditch. This made the ramps about strait out and the rear of the trailer was only a few inches off the ground. I then pushed it on the trailer.

From what I hear they pulled it off the trailer with another truck at his house. They used jack stands under the back of the trailer to keep the tow rig on all fours.

Chris

 

[3RRL]

Diamondpilot,
A rock about the size of a washing machine (2'x2'x3' approx) would weigh less than 1 ton. I can and have picked boulders up that size with my fel.



I have dragged bigger ones than that.



Doug's rocks are about 3 to 5 times bigger than that.
I know that I've tried to move boulders buried partly in the ground by nudging, pushing, prying, strapping, pulling them with my 55hp Kama. One in particular was only about three times the size you mentioned, but I don't know how much was beneath the surface. Anyway, man, I could not budge that sucker. Not even budge it!

Doug,
You are gonna have to get something really big to move those rocks in your pictures, or at least ask the homeowner if he'd consider moving instead?

 

[Dougster]

I have read all these post and just wonder how big these rocks are. I have a 28HP 4 wheel drive and good old ag tires. I have moved rocks as big or bigger than washing machines by just working around it with the FEL and pushing them or pulling them with straps and chains. 2 years ago I had a solid piece of marble that was bigger than a washing machine my neighbors boy wanted. He showed up at my house with a newer Dodge 3/4 ton diesel pulling a 10K equipment trailer. We lowered the ramps and pushed them towards the center of the trailer. As I proceeded to push the rock on the trailer it made it about 3/4 of the way up the ramps when the trucks rear wheels lifted completely of the ground 4 feet or so. I pulled the rock off with a strap and had him pull the trailer in a ditch. This made the ramps about strait out and the rear of the trailer was only a few inches off the ground. I then pushed it on the trailer. From what I hear they pulled it off the trailer with another truck at his house. They used jack stands under the back of the trailer to keep the tow rig on all fours.
Chris

I wish I could tell you that my 41 HP, 7,350 lb TLB could move the bigger of these two rocks... but I believe that would be wishful thinking. Heck, the yellow equipment rental place doesn't even think their 17,000+ lb CAT D4 can move it (although I think they just want the extra $100 a day rental money for the 40,000 lb track excavator).

The larger rock is a good, healthy 10,000 lbs by my calculation. That's if there ain't more of it buried that I can't see. The picture I posted really doesn't do it justice. If anyone has moved such a beast on level ground with a tractor similar to mine, I'd sincerely like to hear all about it.

Dougster

 

[bindian]

My 3-point is not that powerful... and my tractor is not that heavy. 3-point lift capability is only 2,865 lbs. That larger rock... and probably even the smaller one... wouldn't even know that I was there.

Use of my own tractor, if even remotely possible, would require some serious creativity!!!

Dougster

Sure wish I could get a crack at them with my 6520 4WD. I would try rolling them with my loader or hoe them into a roll. Try backing up close (about 2-3 feet) with your BH and reach over and hooking your bucket under the far side of the rock and try to pull back into the boom, then pull up a couple of feet and do it again? Your might be surprised. Good luck.
hugs, Brandi

 

[bindian]

Sure wish I could get a crack at them with my 6520 4WD. I would try rolling them with my loader or hoe them into a roll. Try backing up close (about 2-3 feet) with your BH and reach over and hooking your bucket under the far side of the rock and try to pull back into the boom, then pull up a couple of feet and do it again? Your might be surprised. Good luck.
hugs, Brandi

Dougster,
If you can't get a BH hoe big enough to roll it, and depending how far the big stone goes down, I would try the large track hoe over the dozer. The track hoe can lift a side and pull it. A dozer can only push it. I have learned with large stumps, if you can't lift it whole and can just lift one corner or side, it is easier to slide. Even putting numerous small straight logs under it to roll on, like the ancient Egyptians did moving the large stones, would help.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Dougster]

Sure wish I could get a crack at them with my 6520 4WD. I would try rolling them with my loader or hoe them into a roll. Try backing up close (about 2-3 feet) with your BH and reach over and hooking your bucket under the far side of the rock and try to pull back into the boom, then pull up a couple of feet and do it again? Your might be surprised. Good luck.
hugs, Brandi

Dougster, If you can't get a BH hoe big enough to roll it, and depending how far the big stone goes down, I would try the large track hoe over the dozer. The track hoe can lift a side and pull it. A dozer can only push it. I have learned with large stumps, if you can't lift it whole and can just lift one corner or side, it is easier to slide. Even putting numerous small straight logs under it to roll on, like the ancient Egyptians did moving the large stones, would help.
hugs, Brandi

Obviously, if I had the 6520 (instead of the 4110) I would be far more tempted to try some of the "less certain" solutions... ...but folks need to realize that it's a different world out there when you are bidding a job like this... against others with big yellow machines... for hard money on a hard schedule on someone else's property. It's pretty much got to happen like you've told the client it's gonna happen or you have not met your contractual obligations. There are all kinds of things I might be willing to try on my own property before shelling out the big bucks for a CAT 315 or 321 track excavator. Of course, I wouldn't be trying to move a 10,000 lb rock anyway! I'd likely figure out a good way to work around it (as I am still trying to convince the client to do).

BTW, the smaller 6,000 lb rock doesn't scare me. I've got options there. It's flat, cracked and ugly. It's appears to be all showing. I'd be willing to drill or hammer that sucker apart and haul it off in pieces, if necessary. Two machines (4110 plus truck or CAT 257 rental skidsteer) together could likely move it. There's also a much better chance it could be buried.

It's that 10,000 lb solid round... potentially half-buried... monster that I doubt I could even budge.

Dougster

 

[bindian]

Obviously, if I had the 6520 (instead of the 4110) I would be far more tempted to try some of the "less certain" solutions... ...but folks need to realize that it's a different world out there when you are bidding a job like this... against others with big yellow machines... for hard money on a hard schedule on someone else's property. It's pretty much got to happen like you've told the client it's gonna happen or you have not met your contractual obligations. There are all kinds of things I might be willing to try on my own property before shelling out the big bucks for a CAT 315 or 321 track excavator. Of course, I wouldn't be trying to move a 10,000 lb rock anyway! I'd likely figure out a good way to work around it (as I am still trying to convince the client to do).

BTW, the smaller 6,000 lb rock doesn't scare me. I've got options there. It's flat, cracked and ugly. It's appears to be all showing. I'd be willing to drill or hammer that sucker apart and haul it off in pieces, if necessary. Two machines (4110 plus truck or CAT 257 rental skidsteer) together could likely move it. There's also a much better chance it could be buried.

It's that 10,000 lb solid round... potentially half-buried... monster that I doubt I could even budge.

Dougster

Dougster,
Well, how about explaning to your client all the different means availble to move the stone. But when do you determine if it is a stone or just the tip of the ice berg? As I understand it, if the customer senses your not sure about moving it, they will go with another bidder.
Good luck.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Dougster]

Dougster, Well, how about explaning to your client all the different means availble to move the stone. But when do you determine if it is a stone or just the tip of the ice berg? As I understand it, if the customer senses your not sure about moving it, they will go with another bidder.
Good luck.
hugs, Brandi

Funny but one of the big mistakes that mentors and other folks have said I've made while starting this little business is that I talk too openly and too much about equipment capabilities & options and different approaches that can be taken to doing a particular job. The preferred approach is apparently to go in looking and sounding totally confident and knowing exactly what path to take intuitively... or at least to be able to pretend that's the case!

But I am a talker and my old engineer's confidence comes from an entirely different place... that of knowing where and how to get the best solutions (including places like TBN!) rather than knowing it all myself. It turned out that this client was a talker too. We "bonded" over a discussion of all the different approaches other bidders had told him they would take. I then took a wildly different approach and he loved it. I offered to give him a complete menu of options, priced and fully discussed... pros and cons... not just on the mega-rocks, but on his entire project. The proposal went out today. I should know by next week whether this very different approach worked or not.

Dougster