To idle or shut-off: Which is best?

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 21, 2005

( Many are all worked up about cool cylinders, condensing, and oil plugging..... )

Just curious - if you're slamming us as being "all worked up" about condensation, sludge, inefficient combustion etc ... then why do you idle your engine at 1200 rpm? Why not run it at low idle and save fuel?

( Controlled studies demonstrate that prolonged idling typically reduces the operating life of engine oil by 75 percent, from 600 engine-hours to 150 engine-hours )

Also, the article talked about OIL life going from 600 hrs to 150 hrs, not ENGINE life.

( We're talking 40 to 100 hour per year CUTS here )

I put about 350 hours per year on mine, many here do much more than that. But even if it was 10 hours, I still wouldn't operate my engine in a way that had been conclusively shown to me to be harmful to it.

( I'll call you when the engine dies, in my next life. )

Don't bother, I don't think we'd get along.

bugstruck · Nov 21, 2005

I suppose if you live in Mass. your not legal past 5 minutes of idling. Idle Law I do understand the reasoning for limited idling. The arguments seem valid. Curiously though, if we (governments) are so terribly concerned about the environmental impacts, as this law seems to indicate, I'd think we'd build more or better roads. Eventually we may all have cars, etc. that compensate with new technology for all the idling we do on the highways in urban areas, but that's some time off. We'll still be idling and still be polluting, no matter how good that technology is. Don't intend for this to go political, just a curious observation.

I've been converted though, for environmental reasons at least. I'll try and hold to the 5 minute recommendation, even though I'm still not thoroughly convinced I'm seroiusly harming my engine at 10 minutes, but not at <5. Keep in mind we're talking high idle speeds that are on the order of almost 50% WOT. That alone should be some mitigation to the potential caustic cylinder environment. Actually, that's the point most are making...go high idle. I think my engine damage argument would be lost though at dead idle, no doubt to that. Appreciate the reply. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

bugstruck · Nov 21, 2005

Tree Guy,

Just read your post. On a re-read I guess I did come across a bit terse. I'm usually not that abrasive. Can't blame the wine though. My apologies.

Acknowledged on the oil life hours. Missed that totally. Mine does get changed at roughly 50 though (annually), for what it's worth.

350 is allot of hours to me. That's a more critical piece of equipment to you than mine is to me, no doubt. But I don't intend to intentionally damage mine either.

Wow! Guess I did tick you off. /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif I'll try and comport myself a little better next time. I ain't perfect.

kubota_man · Nov 21, 2005

Diesel engines are designed to operate with a load. When a diesel engine operates considerably below the rated output level the engine can start to over-fuel or "Wet Stack". Diesel engines perform most efficiently in the 70-80% range of rated output. When an engine operates for a prolonged period of time below 40% of the rated output it begins to over-fuel. This occurs because the injection tips began to carbonize and disrupt the fuel spray pattern. Instead of idling the engine, up the RPM'S and this will reduce wet stacking. Newer trucks will shut down the engines after a short time idling. You can set the idle to a higher RPM and the engine will continue to operate with much less chance of wet stacking. My 2 Cents.

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 21, 2005

Bugstruck -

Hey, i think we can get along after all. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

That was one classy post, thanks very much for smoothing my hackles back down. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Now it's my turn to be contrite - I thought long and hard (but not long and hard enough) about that last bit about not calling me - hey, I ain't perfect either. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

I allowed myself to get a little ticked off, it wasn't your fault. There's a great saying - "You can't get your buttons pushed if you don't have any buttons".

To me, life's all about forgiveness, understanding, helping one another, and being kind to one another. I fail a lot at it, but that's the course I try to steer my little boat. Sounds like you're on the same compass heading as I am.

So call me anytime - and it sounds like you won't have to call about your engine. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Best regards, John D.

rdsaustintx · Nov 21, 2005

Ain't it nice we can all be together. /forums/images/graemlins/smirk.gif

Bald topic save: I idle my BX23 a lot and don't worry about it. Ever. /forums/images/graemlins/tongue.gif

Russell in Texas

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 21, 2005

Russell -

Hmm, now where did I put those buttons, they must be around here somewhere ....

When you say you idle it a lot, and don't worry about it, do you mean that you idle it at its lowest idle setting?

If so, do you disagree with what seems to me to be a very compelling case for not doing so?

************************

"What's so funny 'bout peace, love and understanding?"

- Elvis Costello

"All You Need Is Love"

- Lennon/McCartney

"Can we all just get along?"

- Rodney King

CT_Tree_Guy · Nov 21, 2005

Kubota Man -

Good info, thanks. I've heard of wet stacking before but couldn't have told you what it was exactly.

It's nice to hear from someone who cares about what's going on inside his engine. I wonder why everyone doesn't. Seems obvious that one would want to make an engine last as long as possible and not try to fly in the face of physics and chemistry. Wishful thinking is a poor replacement for good operating practices.

This thread has caused me to make some significant changes to my "old" way of doing things. I used to wait for the engine to reach normal operating temperature before even taking off, and at a fairly low idle, maybe 1000. Now I warm up at a faster idle, more like 1400, and take off much sooner, maybe after reaching 1/4 of normal temp, at around 2000 to get the engine to warm up that much more quickly. No heavy work until it's fully warmed up, as always.

And once it's warmed up, if I have to let it sit and idle, it's at about 1400 rpm, for the lengths of time I've already mentioned. Just can't seem to bring myself to run it much faster than that when it's just sitting, maybe I should do 1500 or 1600.

Any other "converts" out there?

JCody · Nov 21, 2005

For me, this is another example of why I check this forum so often. Not usually a poster as with tractors (especially diesels) I have far more to learn than to say but this thread will make me do a 180 from what I had been doing. I thought I was doing the right thing by only turning off my tractor when I was going to be quite a while and I almost always dropped it down to low idle. Not any more... Thanks.
Jeff

bugstruck · Nov 21, 2005

Thanks Tree Guy! /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

I was on the edge with that post and raising your hackles just reminded me that's not how I ought to couch an opinion. I've read several of your posts and know your a very good member and contributor here. Needed to make us right. Glad my reply got us on the good path. /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif

Life is certainly about all the things you stated. We're all capable of forgetting that for a moment. I surely have and will, no doubt. The test is whether or not we pull ourselves back on the right track when we waiver. I think we passed that test. The "helping one another" is what TBN is all about, as you know. Most members live by that. That's the main reason I keep coming back.

As for calling. Same here, anytime.

Thanks again and Best Regards back,