To kill a mocking, err, blackbird...

   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #11  
Illiniwek,

Wow, I think I'm in the minority/w3tcompact/icons/frown.gif I don't shoot squirrels, coyotes, starlings, Blue Jays ect. I do trap moles.
I do see the the starlings feeding on the crane flies in the pasture and haven't seen any other birds competing.
Al
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #12  
Doug--I certainly have no expectation of destroying, or even substantially affecting, the starling population, and I agree with you that for me, at least, there is no 11th Amendment or other political component to the question of how to handle non-native destructive species. On the other hand, when I can dispatch or deter specific starlings or sparrows in order to try and protect specific bluebirds or martins, I have no hesitation as to what is the right choice (for me). If by "another chip of our ecology" you mean that doing anything to change what exists in nature right now is a step in the wrong direction, I humbly disagree. Letting starlings flourish unabated at the expense of native species is the same, to me, as saying that kudzu should be allowed to take over the mountains of the Carolinas, zebra mussels the harbors of the Great Lakes, purple loosestrife the wetlands from Maine to Wyoming, or Ailanthus the hardwood forests of Ohio. Are those things inevitable? Maybe--probably--so. But to my way of thinking, chipping away at those predators is not harming ecology at all: Rather, they are harming what I think of as ecology by chipping away in mere decades what natural processes created over centuries. The coalmine canary function of birds is certainly important, but starlings do not perform it any better than flickers--in fact, maybe they're not as good at it, since they're such survivors--so if I can choose between seeing a nest of baby sparrows or a nest of baby bluebirds, the sparrows lose.
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #14  
You're not alone, Al! I don't believe in killing anything, if it can be avoided. (I'm not a vegetarian.) As for blue jays...they are my favorite bird. My antiques business is named Blue Jay Antiques. Blue jays are extremely beneficial, and are known to have (accidently) planted many oak forests in the northeast, as they bury acorns and often forget where they buried them. They are in the crow family, and are extremely intelligent. I also did a research paper in graduate school on altruism in blue jays. They take care of aged and infirm individuals, and young help their parents raise babies until they're sexually mature at five years old. If more people were like blue jays, the world would be a better place!
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird...
  • Thread Starter
#15  
Here's a follow-up question: Will eliminating a handful of these little critters a couple times a week really make any sort of difference? Do they tend to hang around the same place once they've nested, or will getting rid of the starlings on my 5 acres just allow more starlings to move in from the woods next door?
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #16  
<font color=blue>I think a shotgun would be a safer choice. </font color=blue>

Just be aware of background landmarks when blasting away with that shotgun.../w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #17  
Illini--

The answer is, "no." I definitely don't endorse plinking away at them--thus the thoughts about specific birds in specific locations. Shooting a bunch of random starlings will have no more effect than killing a random weed, although destroying starling or sparrow nests is probably a marginal public service. I go after these birds only when I see that they are competing for space and/or intruding on the territory of birds which I, personally, deem more desireable, in recent experience bluebirds and purple martins.

By the way--killing native American songbirds, to include, I believe, blue jays and just about anything else besides starlings and Englinsh sparrows--is illegal.
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #18  
There is a fairly new rifle round brought out by a consortium of weapons manufacturers and ammo outfits. It is a .17 caliber round in a necked down Winchester .22 Rimfire magnum case. Design criteria included hypersonic velocities (super sonic still at 200 yds.) No greater range that .22, high accuracy, virtually no ricochete. Relatively innexpensive and extremely devestating to varmits. That is what I recall off the top of my head.

I don't shoot at my mamalian varmits but will carry a snake gun this year (pistol with shot shells for water mocasins/coton mouth, copperheads and rattle snakes. Only seen one poisonous snake (and was unarmed). I don't have a desire to erradicate everything I don't like but for safety sake I will elliminate those individuals who occupy MY space. I have been seting live traps for 'coons but deport them a few miles away.

I did see a redwinged blackbird peck a goldfinch to death and fly off carrying it in its feet. I was not pleased but think shooting at my hundreds of redwinged blackbirds in retaliation is non productive. If I were inclined to go on a "pacification" program for English sparrows (we have very few) I think I would use my Feinwork Brau .177 cal adult air rifle with 8 power scope. I think shooting at starlings unless you are a fast reloader and a terrific wing shot is hardly more than a gesture. Think of having the passsengers of the Titanic form a bucket brigade and try to bail out the ship and prevent its sinking but use a thimble instead of a bucket. Everyone bathed in perspiration even though it is cold out, working hard doing what they believe in but accomplishing nothing. It is like shoveling sand against the tide or trying to dig a hole in the ocean with a shovel.

I would guess that the limit on the population you are focusing on is habitat and food. If there were more habitat and food there would be more of them. Less H&F would reduce their numbers. Given the small percentage of the population you will remove, birds that would not live and or reproduce if you do not intervene will be able to do so when you remove their competition. Here is an opportunity to play "Darwin." You can improve the breed if you shoot the less perfect examples. On average the salvaged replacement birds may be better specimens.

You would be more efficient if you fed the flock to attract them to where you have a spring-net. Net the flock and go out and smack them with a club (like swatting flies not clubbing baby harp seals.) Still a temporary result as the regional population is essentially unaffected and will diffuse back into the swept area.

Perhaps you could find a starling specific separation scheme that could be incorporated into a sort of "final solution" that would be an automated bird killing machine. I think lasers and partical beam weapons or perhaps rail guns might be worth looking at.

I gotta go pry my tongue outa my cheek.

Patrick
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #19  
Patrick:

Seem to recall the passenger pigeon and buffalo as suffering terribly from Mr. Henry,Mr. Sharps and numerous other individuals who produced firearms.

I'd go for a 220 swift with 55 grain hollow point.

Egon
 
   / To kill a mocking, err, blackbird... #20  
As an individual, I doubt that you will ever be able to single handedly damage the starling population. I used to work at an airport and the starlings would nest in the hangar and poop on the planes, causing lots of damage. They would also attempt to nest in the engines. My boss got the bright ides of using a 22. After he realized that he was shooting holes in the roof, I suggested 22 shot shells. There were rumors that the shot shells can damage the rifling in the barrel. Another guy brought in a 22 shotgun. I had seen them before at boy scout camp. They have a smooth bore. The birds would see us and fly out of range of the 22 shot. We finally figured out that if we shut all of the doors and left a 1 foot gap open, it would funnel them towards us. After about a 5 minute wait outside, they would come out and we could hit them at about 30 feet pretty effectively. After several days of killing starlings we had killed about 20 to 30 of them and it was apparent that we were not making a dent. We eventually figured it was easier to eliminate the nesting places with chicken wire, plug the engines with foam baffles and keep the hangar doors closed. The same thing goes for pigeons in the city. Eliminate the nesting places and food and they go away.
 

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