Toothbar or Boxblade?

[Kratos]

Forgive me if this has been covered, but I finally put out the money and have a guy with an excavator clearing two acres of my woods to make pasture eventually. He is taking trees and pulling stumps and piling for me to burn three mountains of brush and stumps this fall after things have dried.

I have a 28 HP 4x4 tractor with a 60" loader bucket. Once he gets done, I will have 2 acres of turned over dirt to level and smooth out so I can plant grass seed right before it starts raining this fall. After paying for the excavator, I can squeek out one more attachment for my tractor. I am deciding between a toothbar for my loader bucket or a box blade for the 3 pt hitch.

The money is close so which will be best for the project at hand?

 

[mrutkaus]

Seems like a gigantic difference. I have a Markham toothbar on my KL130; there is very little to do with leveling.

A boxblade (king kutter cheapest) which i know nothing of except reading here and imagining, would be far out the best choise, IMHO

Mike

 

[mjncad]

Going in reverse to level 2-acres with a toothbar mounted on a loader sounds awfully slow and painful.

I don't have a box blade; but that sounds like a logical choice for such a project. Are you looking at a used box blade? I priced a new 6' Frontier/Woods and it was about 4x the cost of a toothbar for my bucket.

 

[Cottonhawk]

For what you plan to do box blade is more effective.
I also have over two acres to plant this Fall.

 

[Kratos]

Going in reverse to level 2-acres with a toothbar mounted on a loader sounds awfully slow and painful.

I don't have a box blade; but that sounds like a logical choice for such a project. Are you looking at a used box blade? I priced a new 6' Frontier/Woods and it was about 4x the cost of a toothbar for my bucket.

The local tractor dealer says he will let me have a box blade for $400 and the toothbar to where I live is in the low $300's. I will have both eventually, but need to decide which one first.

 

[kennyd]

It definatly sounds like you need a boxblade and not a toothbar for that project!

 

[SkunkWerX]

Boxblade, most likely, not toothbar.

Depends on how flat it's left? If you are looking at 1 foot deep ruts, or worse, then Box Blade all-the-way. If it were better, then you could even consider a rear grader blade or Rake.

Since you said it was an excavator, I'm picturing surface of the moon, maybe?
Are there big holes left from where the stumps were pulled?
You might have your work cut-out for you.

If it's really cratered, nothing would beat a "back drag" with a bulldozer to fill in the deep ruts and get you to a flattened rough grade.

What is the condition of the soil and just how "rutty" is it?

 

[john_bud]

Bad news! The box blades in the 400$ range are pretty much only good for light duty chores. Smoothing out 2 acres is not what I would call a light duty chore. As bought, the light boxes are not very usefull in your environment. Ground enaging implements work best when they are heavy. The implement is then controlling the soil and not the othe way around. If you have a welder and access to some used steel, you can beef up a cheap box.

A better thought may be for you to determine what is going to be left in the field. Rocks? Roots? Huge piles of soil? Or just lumps and clumps?

Depending on what is left, you have vastly different choices. If it's just lumps and clumps, you can get a 8' long 30" diameter (give or take) log, wrap it in 5-6 layers of chain link fence and drag that around. Have 10-15' of fence dragging behind it. That would break up clumps and help spread them out to the lower spots after a fashion. If it's more clumpy, you can go to auctions and buy a 6-8' disc and drag that around at various angles of the discs, starting with just off straight to cut the soil more.

If it's huge piles of stuff, you will have to move it teaspoon by teaspoon with the loader bucket. (Trust me, after you 5,000'th bucket full your gonna think your using a teaspoon!)


If you have lots of rocks, roots and such, you may need to get a sub soiler (middle buster, potato plow, etc) to break up the roots and move rocks up. Then a landscape rake to drag the nasties to the edges of the field.


You may want to visit the library to check out books on successful small scale farming and farming in the 20's, 30's and 40's. The tools used back then are more applicable to your situation. And pocket book.


Last thought, you may want to have a dozer come in and rake the soil to drag out all the nasties as Skunk pointed out. Probably 2 grand to have it done?

jb

 

[loulblades]

I have a similar situation but currently with only a 1/2 acre. Although I do use the toothbar for raking and smoothing, I would much rather have something else (I do have a 60" rear blade and have run it with the edge reverse but it still just isn't the tool for the job).

So I am considering a box blade or a landscape rake (I tilled first). It is hard for me to justify the purchase of either (more like the storage) but I have some dealers close by that rent implements when they have them in stock (unfortunately they have neither item at the moment).

 

[Timber]

Go with the Box Blade and if a lighter one is in your Budget than so be it. You can add wt. to it easy enough. you have a light tractor anyway so just go at a pace that will get you the results you want. I don't think 2 acres is a huge deal for a light duty Box Blade.

 

[tallyho8]

Right! Get the box blade. Just don't plan on finishing the job in one afternoon. Just do what you can in your spare time and it will be finished soon enough.

 

[SkunkWerX]

It really boils down to the actual conditions.
When I read "excavator" and huge piles of stumps and debris, I'm thinking "Lunar surface". My minds eye is picturing full sized tree stumps ripped out of the ground leaving 3 foot deep holes, 6 feet in diameter?

That's where I came up with the Bulldozer solution.

I think we need a picture or more detailed description of the ground.
Are we talking gopher holes, ruts and clumps?
Or are we talking "The Eagle has landed"?

 

[Kratos]

It sounds like the box blade is the way I will go. The excavator guy is filling the holes and promises last day to bring his 450 Case dozer with brush blade (whatever that is) and rake it all for me so it sounds like I will be in pretty good shape when I start with the box blade.

The guy who sold me my tractor might be giving me a break on implements (Ray at Coldwater tractor) since he is right down the street from me. The box blade is a J Bar 5 ft. model for $400 plus tax and that seems reasonable for what I have seen.

Do I still need a box blade if he is going to rake it with a dozer?

 

[Highbeam]

The box blade will prove very usefull for taking the dozer raked field and making it something you could plant grass on. You will find uses for the boxblade far beyond this project.

Is he doing the burning or are you? It is extremely handy to have a toothbar on your bucket when loading, raking, and stoaking fires.

 

[texasjohn]

John_bud has given good advice.

You say you are planning pasture... if this is the case, then you don't have to have it absolutely FLAT...

I think you should wait until you see what it looks like.. you may not need a box blade at all since he's going to fill the holes and rake the brush out of the way.. I assume into a few piles or to one side... 2 acres isn't that much, I'd think he's put everything in one place.

Your tractor is small for doing any real dirt moving. However, John_bud's advice is solid... It is clear to me that you should be able to rig up a drag such as he talks about for little to no money... you will be surprised how such a thing will pull dirt around and kinda level stuff out... and your tractor will be able to pull it. Don't wait, build your drag NOW... you clearly will be able to use it... The exact materials you make it out of isn't critical, just something you can chain your tractor to and pull around.. it should be heavy and if you can rig something that strings out behind it to do some finer smoothing, so much the better.

What you are seeking to do is to provide a seed bed for your fall seed planting... that's all...so you need to determine how fine the dirt needs to be for the seeds you are planning to use. Also, the drag/disc harrow may be the one implement you need, not a box blade.

Me, on a tight budget, smaller tractor, seedbed preparation objective only, I'd first rig up a pole drag and see if I couldn't borrow a drag harrow from somebody if that is what is needed.

How are you going to seed the 2 acres? Many seeders have ground engaging disks and/or rollers that manipulate the dirt... you might discover that you could pull the seeder empty over the property a few times, in different directions to get things leveled out, then fill it with seed and do your thing...

Best of luck! Suggest you expand your personal profile so we have a clue about where you are and general tractor activities/projects. It helps form answers to your questions. Welcome to TBN!

 

[SkunkWerX]

OK, it does sound good if they are bringing a dozer and rake, you should be in relatively good shape. Depends on soil type and dozer operator, but I have seen some dozer jobs come out very, very flat and dressed looking.

So, I'll agree with texasjohn, all you may need to do is drag the field afterward. A boxblade is made for cutting and filling, which, it sounds like your dozer operator will take care, in large part.

We all have different implements, so we have different ways of handling such things. I have a landscape rake, so, I'd probably look to using my rake for final prep, but, that's not saying you should go right out buy a rake.

You could even tow around an old rusty bed-boxspring contraption.
Then a piece of chain linked fencing.

If you knew someone with a drag-harrow, that would be the ticket.
We used them on baseball fields to break up the hardpack after winter, they do a great job levelling and filling too. And it doesn't get easier than towing around something that lies on the ground.

I'm glad to hear they are going to Dozer your 2 acres, I think you will be happy with the results, it sounds like they are doing it correctly, and not cutting corners.

 

[john_bud]

Hmmm, I always seem to follow the skunk!

Anyway, if the land is being raked flat with the dozer, you won't need the box blade.

A section of chain link and a log - low tech - cheap and effective. Drag that around and you can use a broadcast seeder.

I would have a lime truck come out and dump (at a guess) 4 ton of lime per acre. Only a soil test will tell for sure. You should invest the 20 bucks in one and follow the recommedations.

Lack of prep is the main reason fields fail to produce. Then all that seed just rots and you grow weeds. Yuck!

jb

 

[Kratos]

Great advice from all. Thanks. I live on the coast of Washington in Hoquiam. I planned on just using a hand seed spreader and throwing grass seed and then dragging a piece of fenced over it to get good ground contact.

I never thought about adding lime but that is something I will have to look into. Our soil tends to be somewhat acidic.

The piles are huge and I am going to have to burn them. I was concerned about using my tractor for this because of the heat and was wondering if I have to get a dozer guy back out to do the burning. I left my digital camera at work and will take some pictures tomorrow and add them for you all to give a better idea where I now stand.

Is there any trick to adding pictures to a post?

 

[john_bud]

Hopefully the piles are away from other flamables. I have started them with a mixture of 25% gas and 75% used engine oil. Probably won't have too much issue getting a burn permit for a day when it is misting / raining. That's the ONLY time I feel comfortable burning (unless there's a good snow pack). Get the center or windward edge of the pile burning and then let it burn. Use the tractor to push unburnt onto the coals after it's died down. Or use the FEL to push a log that pushes the pile. I won't put my equipment into a fire, that ain't smart. Brush fires can get so dang hot that you can't get within 30' and have flames licking up up up. Just don't expect to burn all of it in one setting. Probably a long weekend is more like it.

You can add pictures by clicking on the "advanced" button or post them online somewhere like photobucket.com and then link to them so they show up without having to click on them.

Are you just going to grow lawn grass or is this a pasture for animals? Either way , you may want to throw a mixture of grass and clover. The clover will help draw in nitrogen that helps the grass. Definitely get a soil test done. The local feed mill will probably be able to spread the powdered lime for around 35$ a ton. You can't do it that cheap or as well.

jb

 

[California]

I have a box blade and don't miss not having a toothbar.

For your project try a drag first. If there's stuff you can't level in a reasonable time using the loader and drag, then get the boxblade. (And I expect this is the case.)

In the future you will consider the boxblade essential, so you might as well have it now when you need it.