Toothbar or Boxblade?

[bindian]

Great advice from all. Thanks. I live on the coast of Washington in Hoquiam. I planned on just using a hand seed spreader and throwing grass seed and then dragging a piece of fenced over it to get good ground contact.

I never thought about adding lime but that is something I will have to look into. Our soil tends to be somewhat acidic.

The piles are huge and I am going to have to burn them. I was concerned about using my tractor for this because of the heat and was wondering if I have to get a dozer guy back out to do the burning. I left my digital camera at work and will take some pictures tomorrow and add them for you all to give a better idea where I now stand.

Is there any trick to adding pictures to a post?

Kratos,
I had loggers take pine and oak off of my 5 acres. I bought a 54 hp 2WD Ford and a KingKutter box blade to pile it all up and burn it. I hit a unseen stump and bent the box blade mounts, but not the box or blade. I ordered new mounts (online parts breakdown) and had braces welded to stiffen the mounts. I have been burning my own piles. You need the box blade to work the burning piles smaller to burn ALL of it. Yes, you have to be careful with the fire and heat......but the smoke is the biggie. After it is all burn, you then level all the dirt out you piled up with the brush and logs. Hope this helps. I now have a Mahindra 4WD 6520 with FEL and backhoe with a thumb. I don't need my box blade any longer and will sell it cheap to you if you come down to TEXAS to pick it up.
hugs, Brandi

 

[Loogie]

I'm doing a similar project. After the dozer is done, if the site is relatively smooth (not necessarily flat) then I would rent a Harley Rake and go over it with that. After that, you'll be ready for seed. The Harley Rake will bust up and clods, windrow any rocks or debris for pickup and smooth things out and fill in any low spots. It was designed for doing exactly what you're doing. Unless your site is really FLAT you will have a hard time getting it smooth with a box blade unless you have a Top-n-tilt feature on your tractor. The Harley Rake rental should run you about $150/day and you'll be able to do the entire 2 acres 3 times over in that day if you so desire.

 

[Kratos]

I spoke to an extension agent today about what type of seed to plant and he said that he has had the best result by leveling the acres and then letting them come up with all of the thistles and weeds whose seeds have been buried in the soil. Then, he suggested this fall that I spray the whole thing with Crossbow and kill the whole field and then plant grass seed this spring. What do you all think of this advice?

I am trying to shrink pictures to attach.

 

[Kratos]

Here are some pictures so far:

 

[Cottonhawk]

Kratos,
I just drove through Hoquiam couple weeks ago after salmon fishing over La Push. Beautiful area.
I am doing pretty much the same thing right now... getting two to three acres prepared for seeding grass. I had about ten huge piles debris stacked by hiring a track hoe and dried through last Summer and hired some pros burned those mountain high piles last Winter. The huge tree stumps are very hard to burn. I end up bury the remaining stumps in the low spots. After the soil test, I am mending the top soil and spreading limes to bring up the PH level.
To kill all weeds with Crossbow is a good idea. Crossbow does not kill grass. I just finished spraying Weedmaster which will kill most of the weeds and much less expensive than Crossbow. I plan to seed the grass this Fall so the grass can come up and have the entire Winter to develop the root system.

 

[SkunkWerX]

You have some nice looking soil there, and it doesn't appear very clumpy, actually looks pretty loose, meaning, it shouldn't be difficult to spread and level. Once the dozer back-drags that stuff, you are going to be pleasantly suprised. Should be relatively flat. Appears that it will only need the top few inches worked down to level/conditioned.

The seeding advice is sound, if you seed in the next month or so, then you will have all of the competing weeds to contend with. If you allow the contenders to come up on their own, knock them down with the Crossbow, then seed afterward, you will have a higher % of what you want, while you have selectively eliminated a good portion of your problem plants. Too bad he is saying Springtime for your final seeding, but, i guess there may not be time left in your growing season to spray, then seed?? I can't speak to your area.

You can always throw down some winter rye, it will hold the soil, and is a nitrogen "fixer" ,so, when you plow it under in the spring, it will add nutrients back.

Back to the soil. Your soil looks rich, loose, and easy to move around.
I was picturing clods, clumps, and boulders of dirt.
If it were me, I would try my Rear Grader blade, my Rake, and I'd follow with my buddy's Drag Harrow. BUT, I say this because that is what I have access to.

I think some of the earlier suggestions about making your own home-brew drag behind would work, now, after seeing your nice soil.

Just dragging around an 18" to 24" diameter by 8 foot log would get you some results toward your goal. wrap the log in some fencing, as was suggested, and drag that around would also help.

I really don't know if a box blade is necessary, or is the right choice for your situation. Before plunking down $400, I'd drag around a Log and then maybe a scrap piece of chain-linked fencing behind it?

Also consider something like a drag harrow?

Ask your buddy who is selling the implements what he would recommend. Sounds like he is close by, and can look and feel the dirt and perhaps suggest the proper tool for the job.

By the way, looks like it will be a great area once established!

 

[Loogie]

Crossbow is a great product but it's expensive. I'm using a generic Roundup equivenlant. If you're going to seed for a pasture then there's really no sense in "saving" what little grass will remain (if any). I would use a non-selective herbicide and kill everything. The wait time from spraying Roundup to seeding is only 2 weeks. If you plant after that, you can also put down a product called Siduron that will keep any crabgrass and other nuisance grass seeds from germinating but won't affect the grass seed you put down. As for thistle and other noxious weeds, you can spray those late in the season or next spring and you'll be fine.

 

[VAChesterfield]

John, about three years ago I did pretty much the same thing you are now tackling on about 3 acres for my four horses. I have a toothbar & box blade, and would not consider using the toothbar for a piece of ground the size you need to prepare.

After the dozer left, I ran my box blade with the scarifiers down to loosen the soil and uproot up the small roots and stumps the dozer missed. I used my landscape rake to rake up the debris, then came back with the BB to smooth out the surface.

As others have commented, using a BB to level a large piece of ground is not going to be a happy experience, however, it will do a reasonable job for a pasture.

Whatever you do, have some fun!

 

[Kratos]

Thanks for all of the advice. Yes, it is plenty loose. In fact, I sink to my ankles when I try to walk out there. Burning the piles is my biggest concern now. They are huge and seem pretty close to the remaining trees. I may have to price having a dozer come back and burn them for me to be safe.

 

[john_bud]

There are a LOT of seeds in the seed bank. Millions and millions per square yard. You should get the soil amended, then I would spray with roundup and a week later plant some rye or even clover. You can always turn them over in the spring or just over seed. Common 2,4D (weed be gone) will kill off most broad leaf weeds and clover.

Then again, the extension guy has years of direct experience with your soil. Hard to argue with that and probably not smart to ignore his advice and take advice from some guy 1000 miles away on a computer!

 

[Kratos]

LOL. I suppose that is true. I am sure he is thinking blackberries and thistles when he mentions the crossbow. The blackberries and thistles were 8 feet high anywhere that the sun could get through the trees before the excavator started to tear it up. Now, it is just dirt for the most part, but I am sure the roots of those larger invasive species are just waiting to be left alone long enough to come up again.

 

[Loogie]

If your soil is that loose then you'll probably have to roll it with a heavy roller after you get the debris out. After you roll it, you'll have a much better idea of where the lumps and bumps are. Even if you just plant the grass now, you'll be able to use the Crossbow in the spring if the blackberries and thistles do come back. If you have a nice thick turf it might just choke them out.

 

[ChuckinNH]

Perhaps a landscape rake would do a good enough job for pasture. I think you could pull an 84" one with no trouble, and even angled it would cover the ground well. Taking out alternate tines would aid in separating the dirt from the debris. Burning the brush, and debris will sterilize the soil under the fire, so it would be best to do that first as the soil will be mixed up a bit in the smoothing process. Don't ask how I know that it's hard to get things to grow where you have burned brush!

 

[Kratos]

I know this thread is old news, but the guy I hired to clear my future pasture with an excavator just came out yesterday true to his word and brought a dozer to rake acres that he cleared. So here is the finished job as far as he is concerned and I have to take it from here with my box blade. You will also see the drainage ditch that he dug for me.

 

[3RRL]

Thanks for sharing those photos.
It looks to me that area is perfect for your light duty boxblade. Doesn't look like a lot of rocks or stumps anymore. You will be moving small amounts of dirt and not really having to dig. You can do it easily with the boxblade. Just take your time and make some criss-cross passes to get it from both directions. Once you get it level and the way you want, get or make a drag harrow. I find using your head when using the tools you have makes it easier on the pocket book. It might take a little more time and elbow grease, but so what. We all want a little more but for some of us, it's not possible. Do as much as you can with what you've got. I admire that spirit.

 

[Cottonhawk]

Nice job.
If you have your soil tested soon, you may be able to seed the grass this Fall.

 

[Highbeam]

Those piles.... don't even think about burning them yourself. I grew up in the puget sound and now am clearing portions of my 15 acres in a similar climate. Those stumps are the problem. They will roll out and need to be restacked as they burn. The safe and proper tool for this is an excavator no smaller than the one you had so the clearing. I highly recommend hiring it out which is what I do now after spending countless hours burning from the back of my 30 HP tractor with toothbar and boxblade. Hire any old company that has insurance for these things. My choice is a logger since their equipment will be in rough shape already and they are pros at burning slash. They will get the permit, they will be liable, and they will get it done without hurting you or your machine.

I helped the hired logging/clearing company burn slash this last fall of 2006 and we managed to start 7 or 8 adjacent trees on fire. They were alders with moss on them and the little sparks just set them off depsite the fire pile being some 50 feet away. That large excavator just reached over and plucked the whole tree out and tossed it in the fire. You can't do that with a tractor.

After the burning you will have a large pile of dirt and ashes to spread out. Nothing will grow in the ash but around the piles will grow very well.

Seriously, burning those piles is NOT something that you should do.

After the burning my cleareed area looked worse than yours and this is what the boxblade did. I'll find some burning pictures.

 

[Highbeam]

Here's the earlier burn thread. I have since hired the same guy to come and do another burn. This time I made a long windrow of brush and the logger would grab handfulls and burn them. A feeder pile.

http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/photos/68479-burn-time.html

 

[Kratos]

Thanks for the advice on the burning though I hate to have to put out more money, I am sure you are right. What should I expect to pay to burn 4 large piles like I have?

 

[Highbeam]

The price for burning is of course very negotiable since all you really need is to be sure that the contractor gets a permit, has insurance, and does the work. Then there is the whole "cash" payment deal that can make things cheaper for everyone.

My last pile which was easily 100 feet long, 30 feet wide and 8 feet tall was burned in two days with one night of hired nightwatch for about 1000$. That included all the incidental mobilization of equipment and permit fees. The loggers official rate is 100$ per hour but I think that he likes me since I pay my bills. I'm also a repeat customer and don't jerk him around.

This is one of those jobs that is good for low bid since there is no real wrong way to do it.