Top And Tilt Revisited...

MadReferee · Jul 26, 2004

( What do you guys think? Just switch one set of hoses on one of the cylinders (as per the schematic) and I ought to have what I'm looking for? Or back to the mental drawing board?)

If you have room to install quick disconnects you can do what you suggest.

Bobm · Jul 26, 2004

If I am looking at the picture and the schematic correctly you actually have a 3 spool valve there. The first set of work ports go to the top link. The middle set are teed between the 2 tilt links. The third set is plumbed as an unused remote.

Yep, the third spool goes to a remote single lever. I'm heading to the barn to switch the hoses on one of the lower link cylinders. Assuming it does what I think it will, I'll install quick connects. The changeover from straight up-down to tilt won't be as smooth as that which Inspector outlined, but I think will meet my needs.

Henro · Jul 26, 2004

BobM,

Do you normally use the third remote, the one with the quick connects on it? If not, you could take the hoses for the right tilt cylinder off the tees, cap the tees on that side, and hook the right cylinder to the third control valve.

Swapping the hoses on one tilt cylinder like you are going to try will certainly give you more lift and a level 3PH when both cylinders are all the way up. It will be interesting to see if difficulties arise getting level if you have a need to have the lift arms go lower than they do with both tilt cylinders fully retracted. The thought being that with parallel cylinders the one feeling the least resistance will hog the fluid.

For example, if you have paralled cylinders, and put a concrete block under one of the lower arms, and nothing under the other, and start to extend the tilt cylinders, the one that hits the concrete block may stop extending, and the other may extend twice as fast at that point, until it hit the ground or the cylinder fully extended. Actually since the 3PH does not apply down pressure, this may or may not happen... Once the lower arm finds that concrete block, it may start lifting the 3PH lift arms...hard to say...

Guess my point is that with parallel cylinders it may be hard to set level on an attachment except for when the cylinders are fully retracted or fully extended... With ample 3PH lift you may not find this to be an issue on your tractor.

If you control each tilt cylinder independently, then you are in complete command of them, and can certainly set level of the rear implement at any point in cylinder travel. But in return you give up your third remote output... /forums/images/graemlins/frown.gif Something you certainly would not want to do if you use it regularly...

JerryG · Jul 26, 2004

Bob,
On one of your side cylinders, swap the hoses end to end. If you do this, then you will have your tilt. That way, one side cylinder will extend as the other one retracts.

Bobm · Jul 26, 2004

Thanks for your suggestion, Henro! I swapped hoses on one of the lower cylinders, and as expected, now have both lower cylinders raise/lower simultaneously. Tried lowering my logging winch on uneven ground, and the winch sits flat (parallel) on any irregular slope. So far, so good.

Now I'll put quick connects on both switched lower cylinder lines, so can switch back from tilt function to full raise function by switching hoses.

Boy, whoever at Gannon designed this TNT for Kubota did not foresee many uses. As the main spool valve sits directly in line with the top link, and that top hydraulic cylinder link is now about 4" in diameter, when one fully raises the entire 3PH the top cylinder link could contact and easily smash the spool valve... and that's with the top link set into the bottom (of four) holes on the draft control! If set into the proper (top) hole (no draft being used), the top cylinder could smash the spool valve flat!!

So.... next I am moving the entire spool valve assembly off to the side by 6" - gotta weld a new bracket to do so but that's no big deal. I will also put quick connects onto the top cylinder, thereby allowing that cylinder to be quickly removed and replaced with the standard top link which of course is smaller in diameter than the hydraulic cylinder link, and will buy me an additional 3" of implement lift.

btw, this L5450 is new to me (bought the '98 L5450 last March, had a nearly identical L3350 prior to it) hence just now getting around to "fixing" the TNT to be more versatile. I think when completed, I will have a fully functional TNT and all of the original (extremely high lift) 3PH features too.

Don't know if Gannon is still making these TNT units for Kubota, but if so they would do well to scrutinize all applications and redesign accordingly. The necessary changes seem obvious to me, don't impair function or aesthetics, and would cost little to nothing to implement.

I'll post before and after pics when completed.

jmc · Jul 26, 2004

Henro,

I may be rewording what you just said but this is the way I see it:

For any given tractor toplink hole position, the 3PH linkage has a certain vertical arc of travel. To get maximum implement lift, you need to to have the 3PH as low as possible when you hook up the implement. If not, you wasted part of that arc on letting the implement go lower than it needs to.

With Bob's setup, he gets both side links the same length, changes the hoses so the side links move in the same direction, and backs up to the implement that needs to be raised the most. Now he retracts both sidelinks as far as possible but still line up with the implement. This is a "one time" setup and now he can change the hoses back so that the sidelinks act opposite to each other, and leave them that way. He's setup in the sweet spot.

When he is tilting an implement, even when the shorter link is fully retracted, the longer link continues to lengthen, so its not like you have to avoid one end of the stroke.

One problem is cylinder leak down. I ordered Kubota's TNT on an L4330 and the sidelink drifts when brand new. Bob's may too, and that may be why they are operating on the wrong end of their range in the first place.

John

MadReferee · Jul 26, 2004

( Don't know if Gannon is still making these TNT units for Kubota, but if so they would do well to scrutinize all applications and redesign accordingly. The necessary changes seem obvious to me, don't impair function or aesthetics, and would cost little to nothing to implement.
)

The Kubota TNT kits contain only top link and a single side tilt link (I am pretty sure on this) cylinders for the L series and is not offered for B and BX series. The L series requires the factory remotes (or you can roll your own). I am not sure if Gannon still supplies the cylinders. My guess would be no since they are probably now sourced elsewhere for much less $$$.

Bobm · Jul 26, 2004

Thanks John!

Even though my tractor is new to me, the original owner states the lower cylinders have always been fully extended when "at rest". You bring up an excellent point though - should they be fully retracted at rest? I'll reconnect to the old tilt setup, but will start with cylinders retracted and note if there is any leak down.

When I first received this tractor I left all hydraulics suspended just to note leak down (that was a minor problem with the old L3350). I did not note any leak down (loader, three point, top link) but of course DID NOT simultaneously test both lower link cylinders when retracted as this is the first time both are simultaneously retracted.

Thanks again- this is the true definition of synergy.