top&tilt - float while retaining DPOCV

[orangetree]

Typical top&tilt cylinders use a normal Double Pilot-operated check to prevent drift. Dark blue Valve1 in the picture. All these uber-compact double check valves use internal pilots for the obvious reason of size & cost. However, if one exposed the pilots (eg "remote" or "external"), then using two DPOCV I believe you could trivially get ALL the benefits of no drift, while still getting full float capability via a simple additional hose (smallest size available - it's just a ~zero flow pressure/pilot line)

What's the most compact Valve2 (light blue) I can get?

thanks!

 

[oldnslo]

In concept that would work but you must also prevent both pilots being pressurized by same signal during normal operation

 

[orangetree]

I think you're getting a how to DEpressurize valve2's pilots, right?

I had assumed that leakage of either the solenoid valve i'd use to control the pilot line (basically 2 position, dead-headed into the pilot line) - or leakage/minkr flow through the pilot itself - would take care if bleeding off the pressure once you turn float "off". A manual type valve coule also be used to drive the pilot line .... i suppose those are tight enough that the line would ONLY depressurize as the pilot "leaked", which could be too slow to be practical?

 

[MtnViewRanch]

If you need both a check valve and the float feature, then put in an end similar to what is pictured and remove the hydraulic issue.

 

[orangetree]

If you need both a check valve and the float feature, then put in an end similar to what is pictured and remove the hydraulic issue.

Thanks. I hadn't seen links with the slots, those are clever. I have a couple implements "sized up" vs my tractor, such as a large blade, wbich have that built in. None of the economy or true "cat1" size stuff i have ever considered have it which is a shame.

Not compatible with wanting a quick-hook top afaict, but a good, simple solution nonetheless.

 

[MtnViewRanch]

Thanks. I hadn't seen links with the slots, those are clever. I have a couple implements "sized up" vs my tractor, such as a large blade, wbich have that built in. None of the economy or true "cat1" size stuff i have ever considered have it which is a shame.

Not compatible with wanting a quick-hook top afaict, but a good, simple solution nonetheless.

I don't understand (not compatible with a Euro top link hook). I have them on both of my tractors. My 32HP cat 1 tractor which is roughly the same size as your Kioti, and my 75HP cat 2 tractor.

 

[orangetree]

I don't understand (not compatible with a Euro top link hook). I have them on both of my tractors. My 32HP cat 1 tractor which is roughly the same size as your Kioti, and my 75HP cat 2 tractor.

Interesting - I do certainly trust you know what you're talking about. When I thought about it above, it just seemed like a bad idea to have that much play in the mechanism around the quick-hitch.

Yes, it's meant to be a ball joint. But the quick-hook already has more play than a proper Heim joint, and adding the slot would seem to add a lot more movement and increased impacts to the joint. This would seem especially problematic when the top cylinder is fully extended, and the lower moving part of the quick-hook clasp is seeing some more significant fraction of the loads from the ball. IDK.

But that's ^ all about the slot being on the implement. How would I combine the slot into my top cylinder, with a hook? On the tractor end doesn't have enough fore/aft travel available, especially since it's the base not rod end of the top cylinder there?

Sorry if that's all not what you meant, thanks for the input!

 

[MtnViewRanch]

I did not mean on the top link. (If) the implement has possible gains from having the top cylinder in float mode, then either have the float feature with the control valve of put a slot in the implement top link mount or get one of the Y pivots that are for the top link mount.

Why do you think that there is any play in the ball swivel with any of the Euro hooks?
Mine are all tight. A ball swivel might be tight when new, it doesn't take that long for them to start loosening up, not that it is any more than 1/16".

The picture below shows where the slot float feature is on a side link. This feature takes a rectangular head pin that either has the pin locked down at the bottom location or is turned vertical to allow the draft arm to float up-down.

Honestly, it seems that you are attempting to make rather simple things more difficult than they need to be. Maybe that's just me not interpreting your threads properly.

Hopefully, you can get whatever it is you are trying to do figured out.

 

[orangetree]

Honestly, it seems that you are attempting to make rather simple things more difficult than they need to be. Maybe that's just me not interpreting your threads properly.

Ha. Don't worry, no offense taken, it would not be the first time. Realistically I do enjoy just learning about all the things ... Your help here is phenomenal, thanks for what you do for the community. In this case specifically what I want is to have float for both my top (for leveling ground with my rake & blade with wheels) & side (for most of the stuff I use on the 3point). And I am not exactly a skilled operator, so I believe maximum travel for both will help me. And I don't want to give up important things like the DPOCV, because that would just make life harder. So I hope to at least understand what all my options are. Also, at this point I"m pushing to get all this onto the top&side links directly so I don't need to futz with modifying any of my implements.

Realistically, if I could afford or justify another 50k in controls, these problems are all better solved with servos & closed loop control ... but alas here we are Maybe by the time I'm giving my equipment to my kids the hobby-level industry will be there. In the meantime, hydraulics seem fun.

For float, I believe I for a reasonable cost I can cleanly & easily get small POCV's either tee'd off the existing banjo fittings on-cylinder (or just tucked away up in the tractor), implementing the circuit in my OP. No one seems to do this, but enough folks want float I'm surprised to have not found anyone trying. I will try. Hopefully not fail , i do have some acreage I have to level (yesterday so to speak)

The picture below shows where the slot float feature is on a side link. This feature takes a rectangular head pin that either has the pin locked down at the bottom location or is turned vertical to allow the draft arm to float up-down.

Makes more sense you were talking side link. That's a clean & elegant solution to get a small amount of side-to-side float. Is it enough? I don't know. You're skilled & popular enough you're booked out pretty far - so due to insufficient planning I'm going to spend a bit more, and invest a bunch of time, trying to get the full range At least it will give me something worthwhile to use the machineshop for!

 

[orangetree]

have the float feature with the control valve

putting this in a separate reply, as it would be a doozie if I've missed something ... I was not able to find any way to get float in the valve AND have load-holding / DPOCV's.

As much as I need float, it would be a huge step back if I mess something up because I didn't notice the cylinder had drifted. As above, closed loop would be the "right" solution here but not remotely doable on hobby $$ at this time.

Was there a floatable tandem valve that also had load-checks on the work ports?