Tornadoes!
- Thread starter Western
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dmccarty
Super Star Member
I don't understand the door placement. Tornadoes in the US rotate counter clock wise so the winds could be from the east or the west depending on the storm track. I don't see how the door or window placement makes a difference. They used to say to open windows on the side of the house away from the storm but this has been debunked.
Later,
Dan
fordmantpw
Veteran Member
Tornado winds are circular, not straight-line, so the wind comes from the East AND the West (and North AND South). Tornadoes do typically come out of the SW, though, so I'm sure that has something to do with the recommended door placement, but I don't know the reason either.
daugen
Epic Contributor
22 people survived tornado in bank vault The Situation Room with Wolf Blitzer - CNN.com Blogs
now these folk were in the right place at the right time.
Dan, thanks. super info
now these folk were in the right place at the right time.
Dan, thanks. super info
2LaneCruzer
Epic Contributor
My guess is that relative to the rather large circular motion of a tornado, the small profile offered by the door on a shelter effectively would face a straight wind. Assuming the tornado comes out of the WSW, as they seem to do most often here, then the chances of the wind catching the edge of the door and blowing it either open or off, would appear to be lessened if the door placement was on the East or West.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
But would not a north side door be better? :confused3::laughing::laughing::laughing:
I did some quick reading and I could not find any definitive statement that tornadoes have higher winds on one side of the cyclone. If there was a "stronger" side to the tornado maybe that might explain the east/west door placement. :confused3:
Later,
Dan
I couldn't find the quote I read, I cant download the construction manual since I'm on a limited meg allowance (verizon:mur
If one of you want to download it, then give us all the "skinny":laughing: Look in here, other good info here too.
Frequently Asked Questions: Tornado/Hurricane Safe Rooms | FEMA.gov
If one of you want to download it, then give us all the "skinny":laughing: Look in here, other good info here too.
Frequently Asked Questions: Tornado/Hurricane Safe Rooms | FEMA.gov
farmgirl19
Super Member
I cant download the construction manual since I'm on a limited meg allowance (verizon:mur
If one of you want to download it, then give us all the "skinny":laughing:
:laughing: So I am not the only one. Have AT&T 4G, and end up spending the last 5-7 days of each billing cycle avoiding videos and downloads, as I am out of allowance. No cable out here, and, given the reliability I had when I had satellite TV, with rain, clouds, etc., won't pay for it for TV or Internet, so the 4G card is as good as it gets.
dave1949
Super Star Member
DESIGN
I will post a copy of the useful parts, in sections for those on a download budget.
Q13. What is the recommended square footage per person for a tornado community safe room?
A13. For a tornado community safe room, the number of standing, seated (wheelchair-bound), and bedridden spaces should be determined based on the expected occupancy of the safe room calculated by the designer and the applicable authority having jurisdiction. However, each community safe room should be sized to accommodate a minimum of one wheelchair space for every 200 occupants.
It is also important to note that floor areas within community safe rooms should have an access route in accordance with the International Code Council (ICC)/American National Standards Institute (ANSI) A117.1, Standard on Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities. The minimum recommended safe room floor area per occupant for tornado community safe rooms is provided in Table 1.
Table 1. Occupant Density for Tornado Community Safe Rooms
TORNADO COMMUNITY SAFE ROOM OCCUPANT MINIMUM RECOMMENDED USABLE FLOOR AREA* PER SAFE ROOM OCCUPANT
Standing or Seated
5 square feet
Wheelchair Bound
10 square feet
Bedridden
30 square feet
*See FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) Section 3.3.1(o) for recommended usable safe room floor area.
Please note that, if you wish to build a FEMA-funded tornado community safe room, the recommendations shown in Table 1 are required.
I will post a copy of the useful parts, in sections for those on a download budget.
Q13. What is the recommended square footage per person for a tornado community safe room?
A13. For a tornado community safe room, the number of standing, seated (wheelchair-bound), and bedridden spaces should be determined based on the expected occupancy of the safe room calculated by the designer and the applicable authority having jurisdiction. However, each community safe room should be sized to accommodate a minimum of one wheelchair space for every 200 occupants.
It is also important to note that floor areas within community safe rooms should have an access route in accordance with the International Code Council (ICC)/American National Standards Institute (ANSI) A117.1, Standard on Accessible and Usable Buildings and Facilities. The minimum recommended safe room floor area per occupant for tornado community safe rooms is provided in Table 1.
Table 1. Occupant Density for Tornado Community Safe Rooms
TORNADO COMMUNITY SAFE ROOM OCCUPANT MINIMUM RECOMMENDED USABLE FLOOR AREA* PER SAFE ROOM OCCUPANT
Standing or Seated
5 square feet
Wheelchair Bound
10 square feet
Bedridden
30 square feet
*See FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) Section 3.3.1(o) for recommended usable safe room floor area.
Please note that, if you wish to build a FEMA-funded tornado community safe room, the recommendations shown in Table 1 are required.
dave1949
Super Star Member
FEMA shelters, cont.
COST
Q16. What is the cost of installing a safe room in a new home or small business?
A16. Costs for construction vary across the United States. The cost for constructing a safe room that can double as a master closet, bathroom, or utility room inside a new home or small business ranges from approximately $6,600 to $8,700 (in 2011 dollars). This cost range is applicable to the basic designs in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) for an 8-foot by 8-foot safe room (approximately 64 square feet of protected space). Larger, more refined designs for greater comfort cost more, with 14‑foot by 14-foot safe rooms ranging in cost from approximately $12,000 to $14,300. The cost of the safe room can vary significantly, depending on the following factors:
The size of the safe room
The location of the safe room within the home or small business
The number of exterior home walls used in the construction of the safe room
The type of door used
The type of foundation on which the safe room is constructed
The location of the home or small business within the United States
For additional cost information for small safe rooms in a home or small business, see FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a), Section II, page 34. For additional cost information for community safe rooms, see FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), Section 2.3, page 2-21.
Furthermore, see High Wind Safe Rooms.org for sample remodeling costs for an 8-foot by 8-foot safe room and a 14-foot by 14-foot safe room.
COST
Q16. What is the cost of installing a safe room in a new home or small business?
A16. Costs for construction vary across the United States. The cost for constructing a safe room that can double as a master closet, bathroom, or utility room inside a new home or small business ranges from approximately $6,600 to $8,700 (in 2011 dollars). This cost range is applicable to the basic designs in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) for an 8-foot by 8-foot safe room (approximately 64 square feet of protected space). Larger, more refined designs for greater comfort cost more, with 14‑foot by 14-foot safe rooms ranging in cost from approximately $12,000 to $14,300. The cost of the safe room can vary significantly, depending on the following factors:
The size of the safe room
The location of the safe room within the home or small business
The number of exterior home walls used in the construction of the safe room
The type of door used
The type of foundation on which the safe room is constructed
The location of the home or small business within the United States
For additional cost information for small safe rooms in a home or small business, see FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a), Section II, page 34. For additional cost information for community safe rooms, see FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), Section 2.3, page 2-21.
Furthermore, see High Wind Safe Rooms.org for sample remodeling costs for an 8-foot by 8-foot safe room and a 14-foot by 14-foot safe room.
dave1949
Super Star Member
FEMA shelters, cont.
Q19. Where is the best location for the safe room?
A19. There are several possible locations in or near your home or small business for a safe room. The most convenient location in many homes is in the basement. If there is no basement within the home, or if the walls of the basement do not meet FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) design criteria, an in-ground safe room can be installed beneath a concrete slab-on-grade foundation or concrete garage floor. In-ground and basement safe rooms provide the highest level of protection against missiles and falling debris because they are typically shielded from direct forces of wind and debris; however, above-ground designs, such as the prescriptive designs provided in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) or any solution following the criteria set forth in FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) will provide near-absolute protection.
Many individuals prefer to build within their homes or buildings so they have some level of protection while attempting to access their safe room. For an existing home or small business, this convenience must be balanced with the challenges of retrofitting the building. For more information on selecting the location of a safe room within your home or small business, see FEMA P-320 (2008a), Section II, page 27.
Back To Top
Q20. Is an underground safe room safer than one above ground?
A20. As long as a safe room is designed to meet or exceed the criteria in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) and FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), it will offer the same near-absolute protection whether it is above or below ground.
Some people prefer to construct a safe room within their homes or building (rather than outside within 100 feet) so they have some level of protection while attempting to access it. For an existing home or small business, this convenience must be balanced with the challenges of retrofitting the building. For more information on selecting the location of a safe room within your home or small business, see FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a), Section II, page 27.
Q19. Where is the best location for the safe room?
A19. There are several possible locations in or near your home or small business for a safe room. The most convenient location in many homes is in the basement. If there is no basement within the home, or if the walls of the basement do not meet FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) design criteria, an in-ground safe room can be installed beneath a concrete slab-on-grade foundation or concrete garage floor. In-ground and basement safe rooms provide the highest level of protection against missiles and falling debris because they are typically shielded from direct forces of wind and debris; however, above-ground designs, such as the prescriptive designs provided in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) or any solution following the criteria set forth in FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) will provide near-absolute protection.
Many individuals prefer to build within their homes or buildings so they have some level of protection while attempting to access their safe room. For an existing home or small business, this convenience must be balanced with the challenges of retrofitting the building. For more information on selecting the location of a safe room within your home or small business, see FEMA P-320 (2008a), Section II, page 27.
Back To Top
Q20. Is an underground safe room safer than one above ground?
A20. As long as a safe room is designed to meet or exceed the criteria in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) and FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), it will offer the same near-absolute protection whether it is above or below ground.
Some people prefer to construct a safe room within their homes or building (rather than outside within 100 feet) so they have some level of protection while attempting to access it. For an existing home or small business, this convenience must be balanced with the challenges of retrofitting the building. For more information on selecting the location of a safe room within your home or small business, see FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a), Section II, page 27.
dave1949
Super Star Member
FEMA shelters, cont.
Q25. Where can I download the prescriptive design drawings referenced in FEMA P-320?
A25. FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) can be downloaded from the FEMA library Web site. At the bottom of the page is a resource file link for downloading the in-residence and small business safe room design drawings. See also Safe Room Construction Plans and Specifications for a list of the drawings.
Back To Top
Q26. Where can I find additional information and plans for safe room construction?
A26. Additional information is available at the FEMA Safe Room Web site.
For residences and small businesses:
Call 1-800-480-2520 to order FEMA P-320, Taking Shelter from the Storm: Building a Safe Room for Your Home or Small Business (FEMA, third edition, 2008a)
Download FEMA P-320 and the design drawings from the FEMA library.
Download FEMA P-361, Design and Construction Guidance of Community Safe Rooms (FEMA, second edition, 2008) from the FEMA library Web site. Chapter 3 of FEMA 361 contains design criteria for both residential and community safe rooms.
For community safe rooms:
Download FEMA P-361, Design and Construction Guidance of Community Safe Rooms (FEMA, second edition, 2008) from the FEMA library Web site.
Q25. Where can I download the prescriptive design drawings referenced in FEMA P-320?
A25. FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) can be downloaded from the FEMA library Web site. At the bottom of the page is a resource file link for downloading the in-residence and small business safe room design drawings. See also Safe Room Construction Plans and Specifications for a list of the drawings.
Back To Top
Q26. Where can I find additional information and plans for safe room construction?
A26. Additional information is available at the FEMA Safe Room Web site.
For residences and small businesses:
Call 1-800-480-2520 to order FEMA P-320, Taking Shelter from the Storm: Building a Safe Room for Your Home or Small Business (FEMA, third edition, 2008a)
Download FEMA P-320 and the design drawings from the FEMA library.
Download FEMA P-361, Design and Construction Guidance of Community Safe Rooms (FEMA, second edition, 2008) from the FEMA library Web site. Chapter 3 of FEMA 361 contains design criteria for both residential and community safe rooms.
For community safe rooms:
Download FEMA P-361, Design and Construction Guidance of Community Safe Rooms (FEMA, second edition, 2008) from the FEMA library Web site.
dave1949
Super Star Member
FEMA shelters, cont.
Q32. What forces should a safe room door be designed to resist?
A32. In addition to resisting both positive and negative wind pressures, safe room doors must also be able to resist debris impact. Door construction (primarily the exterior skin) has been found to be a limiting element in the ability of a door to withstand missile impacts.
The door chosen for your safe room should have been tested to meet the criteria outlined in FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), Section 3.5.2. A manufacturer should be able to provide documentation to show that their product has passed such testing. The door and door assembly should also have been tested to withstand both positive and negative pressures in addition to debris impact loads. For more information on testing of doors for both missile impact and pressurization, see Chapter 8 of the Standard for the Design and Construction of Storm Shelters (ICC, 2008), also known as the ICC-500.
Back To Top
Q33. Where do I find the doors and hardware for my in-residence shelter?
A33. Doors and hardware that provide protection for a safe room may be constructed from common building materials or purchased from manufacturers. Drawing number MS-02 in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) shows the details necessary to construct a safe room door using 14- and 12-gauge steel panels. Alternatively, a home or business owner may purchase a door that meets the performance criteria set forth in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) and FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) from a manufacturer. FEMA does not certify specific products for use, but any manufacturer can have their products tested to demonstrate that the FEMA criteria have been met.
Back To Top
Q34. Should the door of a safe room swing inward or outward?
A34. FEMA has no recommendation regarding the direction of the door swing since wind can create both positive and negative pressures on a safe room. Please contact a local building official or licensed design professional in your area to discuss the applicable building code requirement for the direction of door swing.
Back To Top
Q35. How should I prepare for the possibility of a safe room door becoming blocked by debris after a tornado event?
A35. You should always keep in mind any door can be obstructed by debris after a tornado event; an operations and communication plan should be in place to guide actions should this occur. You should consider having several forms of communication within the safe room to allow you to call for help if the door becomes blocked. Having a jacking mechanism in the safe room to pry the door open is also prudent. Also keep in mind that the safe room doors should be operable from the inside without any keys or special knowledge or effort. Before any hazard event occurs, you should notify emergency management service personnel to tell them where your safe room is located.
Back To Top
Q36. Is it permissible to install locking devices on safe room door handles/knobs?
A36. According to FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), the egress doors of the safe room should be operable from the inside without the use of keys or special knowledge or effort. Furthermore, Section 7.4.3 of FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) states that model building codes and life-safety codes often include strict requirements for securing doors in public areas. These codes often require panic bar hardware, single-release mechanisms, and other hardware requirements. Please keep this in mind and check with local building code officials before installing door hardware.
In all cases, a detailed operations and communication plan should be developed. The operation and communication plan should clearly identify the protocol for who is responsible for unlocking and securing the safe room before and after an event, describe the critical operations plans, and provide backup plans in case those in charge of said duties are unavailable.
Q32. What forces should a safe room door be designed to resist?
A32. In addition to resisting both positive and negative wind pressures, safe room doors must also be able to resist debris impact. Door construction (primarily the exterior skin) has been found to be a limiting element in the ability of a door to withstand missile impacts.
The door chosen for your safe room should have been tested to meet the criteria outlined in FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), Section 3.5.2. A manufacturer should be able to provide documentation to show that their product has passed such testing. The door and door assembly should also have been tested to withstand both positive and negative pressures in addition to debris impact loads. For more information on testing of doors for both missile impact and pressurization, see Chapter 8 of the Standard for the Design and Construction of Storm Shelters (ICC, 2008), also known as the ICC-500.
Back To Top
Q33. Where do I find the doors and hardware for my in-residence shelter?
A33. Doors and hardware that provide protection for a safe room may be constructed from common building materials or purchased from manufacturers. Drawing number MS-02 in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) shows the details necessary to construct a safe room door using 14- and 12-gauge steel panels. Alternatively, a home or business owner may purchase a door that meets the performance criteria set forth in FEMA P-320 (FEMA, 2008a) and FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) from a manufacturer. FEMA does not certify specific products for use, but any manufacturer can have their products tested to demonstrate that the FEMA criteria have been met.
Back To Top
Q34. Should the door of a safe room swing inward or outward?
A34. FEMA has no recommendation regarding the direction of the door swing since wind can create both positive and negative pressures on a safe room. Please contact a local building official or licensed design professional in your area to discuss the applicable building code requirement for the direction of door swing.
Back To Top
Q35. How should I prepare for the possibility of a safe room door becoming blocked by debris after a tornado event?
A35. You should always keep in mind any door can be obstructed by debris after a tornado event; an operations and communication plan should be in place to guide actions should this occur. You should consider having several forms of communication within the safe room to allow you to call for help if the door becomes blocked. Having a jacking mechanism in the safe room to pry the door open is also prudent. Also keep in mind that the safe room doors should be operable from the inside without any keys or special knowledge or effort. Before any hazard event occurs, you should notify emergency management service personnel to tell them where your safe room is located.
Back To Top
Q36. Is it permissible to install locking devices on safe room door handles/knobs?
A36. According to FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b), the egress doors of the safe room should be operable from the inside without the use of keys or special knowledge or effort. Furthermore, Section 7.4.3 of FEMA P-361 (FEMA, 2008b) states that model building codes and life-safety codes often include strict requirements for securing doors in public areas. These codes often require panic bar hardware, single-release mechanisms, and other hardware requirements. Please keep this in mind and check with local building code officials before installing door hardware.
In all cases, a detailed operations and communication plan should be developed. The operation and communication plan should clearly identify the protocol for who is responsible for unlocking and securing the safe room before and after an event, describe the critical operations plans, and provide backup plans in case those in charge of said duties are unavailable.
dave1949
Super Star Member
FEMA shelters, last.
REFERENCES/RESOURCES
American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE). 2005. Flood Resistant Design and Construction. ASCE 24-05.
ASCE. 2010. Minimum Design Loads for Buildings and Other Structures. ASCE 7-10.
Federal Alliance for Safe Homes, Inc. (FLASH). HIGH WIND SAFE ROOMS.ORG. Last accessed: December 2, 2011.
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). 2008a. Taking Shelter from the Storm: Building a Safe Room for Your Home or Small Business. FEMA P-320.
FEMA. 2008b. Design and Construction Guidance for Community Safe Rooms. FEMA P-361.
FEMA. 2009. Mitigation Interim Policy: Hazard Mitigation Assistance (HMA) for Safe Rooms. MRR-2-09-1. Last accessed October 18, 2011.
FEMA. 2010. 2011 FY FEMA Hazard Mitigation Assistance Unified Guidance: Hazard Mitigation Grant Program, Pre-Disaster Mitigation Program, Flood Mitigation Assistance Program, Repetitive Flood Claims Program, Severe Repetitive Loss Program.
International Code Council (ICC). 2006. International Building Code. 2006 IBC
ICC. 2006. International Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings. 2006 IRC.
ICC. 2008. ICC/National Strom Shelter Association Standard for the Design and Construction of Storm Shelters. ICC 500-2008.
REFERENCES/RESOURCES
American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE). 2005. Flood Resistant Design and Construction. ASCE 24-05.
ASCE. 2010. Minimum Design Loads for Buildings and Other Structures. ASCE 7-10.
Federal Alliance for Safe Homes, Inc. (FLASH). HIGH WIND SAFE ROOMS.ORG. Last accessed: December 2, 2011.
Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). 2008a. Taking Shelter from the Storm: Building a Safe Room for Your Home or Small Business. FEMA P-320.
FEMA. 2008b. Design and Construction Guidance for Community Safe Rooms. FEMA P-361.
FEMA. 2009. Mitigation Interim Policy: Hazard Mitigation Assistance (HMA) for Safe Rooms. MRR-2-09-1. Last accessed October 18, 2011.
FEMA. 2010. 2011 FY FEMA Hazard Mitigation Assistance Unified Guidance: Hazard Mitigation Grant Program, Pre-Disaster Mitigation Program, Flood Mitigation Assistance Program, Repetitive Flood Claims Program, Severe Repetitive Loss Program.
International Code Council (ICC). 2006. International Building Code. 2006 IBC
ICC. 2006. International Residential Code for One- and Two-Family Dwellings. 2006 IRC.
ICC. 2008. ICC/National Strom Shelter Association Standard for the Design and Construction of Storm Shelters. ICC 500-2008.
Exactly the same with Verizon. I am looking into a couple of options that allow a 20 meg allowance for the same $69! I hardly ever look at video since just a movie could almost eat up my month, photos can add up too! So far, I am happy to say that through the worst storms, my 3g/4g jetpack has had signal, even when everything else goes out.
David, I can read that part since type/print uses the least amount of the allotment, but to download the FEMA P-320 construction plans would use allot. Same with the IC500 plans from the NSSA I National Storm Shelter Assc)
farmgirl19
Super Member
Western; I don't watch movies here, on mine, but the last few days of the cycle, can't visit youtube, or download .pdf, etc. I only pay $50/month (plus taxes and use fees), but sure would like to find something with less restrictions on data. I giess if one was willing to pay $100 or more a month, they could get more data, but that isn't my budget either. Guess that is something else we'll have to share info on!
dave1949
Super Star Member
FEMA P-320 is a series of files in .dwg format. It seems to want AutoCad. I don't have an AutoCad viewer utility on my PC.
dave1949
Super Star Member
I'm not very up on file types, or what can be used for a .dwg file.
dmccarty
Super Star Member
DWG files are Autocadd and some other CAD programs.
A viewer to look at DWG files is here -> DWG Viewers | AutoCAD WS, TrueView, TrustedDWG
Later,
Dan
Here are some similar links:
