Toro Wheel Horse 264h Starting & Charging Problem

[docsplace]

Hi Everyone

I have a Toro Wheel Horse 264h Starting & Charging Problem, First off I purchased this tractor used and inherited these problems, This tractor has been bypassed
to run with a toggle switch that has to be on to run. It also does not charge the battery, no 12v coming from the regulator. it does have 45v ac coming from stator.
Not sure if it is regulator or missing a second relay. What I can tell by looking at diagrams is it may need switch and start relay. there is a second spot on block for another relay. So could this bypass maybe be effecting the charging system or maybe a key switch problem because it just clicks sometimes when you try start it specialy when battery is low, You have to turn key on and off couple times to get it to crank. I do not just want to throw parts at it. I have checked fuses and the relay and they test good.

Any thoughts or help would be appreciated. Thanks Tom

 

[stevem5215]

While I don't think we have enough information to figure this out I'd offer a guess that your grounds are corroded and the ignition switch sounds likely to be bad. I'd start with those first and move onto proper diagnosis with a meter testing stuff.

Steve

 

[tomplum]

Yes definitely service the battery terminals plus the regulator terminals and ground strap. Plus whatever other terminals for good measure. They were nice enough tractors but the wiring and connections are 20 years old. In regards to charging you should also have battery voltage at the center terminal of the regulator. If your meter shows an increased reading while the engine is running, your regulator is working. Toro should still have the service manual online. Google Toro 260 series tractor service manual.

 

[docsplace]

Yes definitely service the battery terminals plus the regulator terminals and ground strap. Plus whatever other terminals for good measure. They were nice enough tractors but the wiring and connections are 20 years old. In regards to charging you should also have battery voltage at the center terminal of the regulator. If your meter shows an increased reading while the engine is running, your regulator is working. Toro should still have the service manual online. Google Toro 260 series tractor service manual.

Update: I got a new aftermarket relay cheap at local dealer and pulled used key switch off a old simplicity sunstar and disconnected the kill switch.
and now it will start and run and has 15.5 volt from b+ terminal to battery ground but I have to plug the kill switch back up to shut it off. I did notice the white wire
coming from key switch looks like is missing another white wire cut from the connector just hanging there. Just to note that while that added kill switch is hooked up there is no voltage to the regulator/rectifier. need to find where that cut white wire is suppose to go. Seems to me that is probably the kill wire that should be hooked up. Or there is a separate relay for the kill wire to kill the engine and I think it may be a different relay then the switch relay. there are 2 different relay terminal plugs on the relay block and only 1 was there and it had a toggle switch hooked up to kill the tractor. Here is the link to the 264h model 72043 serial 4900542 under owners manual and wiring diagram, but no parts reference I can find for relays. Toro | Parts – 264-H Yard Tractor

 

[tomplum]

Be careful that the ignition switch is the same as the Toro. When you speak of kill switches, which one?

 

[docsplace]

Be careful that the ignition switch is the same as the Toro. When you speak of kill switches, which one?

Ignition switch I put in has the same layout as the wheel horse switch. I was referring to the off position on the key switch it does not kill the motor in the off position.

The tractor has a toggle switch hooked up as a kill switch. but when looking at the relay block there is only 1 relay but a spot for 2 and the toggle switch is
wired to the empty relay block position. When I look at the wiring diagram it shows 2 relays and 1 is marked as a kill relay, so far I have not been able to determine what that relay part number is.

I am going to call a local dealer this morn and see if they have part numbers for those relays. They could not cross reference them. Hoping to find someone that has 1 of these tractors with some pics.

Here is the wiring diagram link the correct diagram is on page 77. Im no expert on reading these so I may be mistaking on that second relay.
https://www.toro.com/getpub/4486



Thanks

 

[tomplum]

Both relays are the same. Buy two or at least remember what shelf it came from. I bet if you take the one down you will find it to be a standard relay that Napa would have for a lighting kit. Or I would think that it is the same as a Husqvarna 109748x if a mower shop is near.What the relay does is stamped on the side so you can compare.

 

[docsplace]

I purchased a new relay that is suppose to be the same, I think this has other wiring issues, I see a 2 wire black lead just laying in there which as far as I can see
on diagram it is suppose to be hooked up to the solenoid coil opposite of the green wire and then to motor ground which is where the other end is hooked up. I am going try some more testing tomorrow. That may very well be the kill wire.

 

[tomplum]

I've played with safety switch issues on these before. It isn't always easy to see what you need to see. You really want to be sure on the ignition switch function. If the terminal labeling is the same, you would THINK that it would work.

 

[docsplace]

I think you may be right, Im not sure it had the right one in it to start with, By looking at the print it shows a complete different lettering system then normal. The right switch is Toro 926785 Ignition Switch. left to right is S,B,R,L,I. and there were other mods to make it work with different key switch, The switch that came out has S,A,B,M,G. and the solenoid motor ground was not hooked up only motor ground to battery. So got my work cut out for me. The right switch is around $39.00. cheapest I can find.

 

[tomplum]

I guess being in your shoes and not knowing what may have been done with switching wire positions in the harness, that should be a next look. There isn't anything special electrically on that tractor that comes to mind fortunately. Toro parts always had good value in earlier years. You will find that the parts for these are pricey once you need to buy OEM now though.

 

[docsplace]

an update after finding the 926785 Ignition Switch terminal layout, It is the same that came out of it, but print shows different layout, IDK.???

 

[docsplace]

If I could get a look at another 264h I could figure it out. Some of these wiring diagrams don't show a true picture of how the wiring actually looks. You have to know what the symbols mean. if they had a ledger explaining what the symbols mean it would help a lot.

I'm going to try working out some other issues I see. 1 is two black wires coming out of the bottom of the switching relay block going to the same single wire connector are not hooked up to anything. I think these should be grounding the kill system or hooked to a dash indicator. I have been looking at pics on google search but no luck yet.

Another is when I pull of that wire protector from the ignition I see someone has spliced a white wire into the yellow and ran it to the coil on the solenoid. It's no wonder it don't perform right.

 

[tomplum]

So you don't have the service manual?

 

[docsplace]

Yes I did download the service manual but it has a basic explanation of the function of the switch and relays. It helps a little.
The manual is for the 260 series with 6 speed or hydro up to late 90's and shows 4 relays for more optional machines.

I think maybe someone may have just been trying to bypass safety switch's.
But I'm just trying to make it Start, Run and shut off with the switch and charge the battery is the other function it wasn't doing. If a key switch is causing those issues i'm just going to buy one. The one that came out of it does not energize the right terminals and has continuity to 1 in off or open position. But for some reason i'm just not convinced that switch is the hole problem. The print shows a different terminal layout then what the actual switch has.

 

[tomplum]

Look for the Demystification Guide Pn 492-4404 for this tractor. It will help.

 

[docsplace]

Ok this is the service manual I have, It is helpful, I understand the key switch and relay functions and how it works, it is different then the actual manual with parts reference and has different pin out on key switch with the 2 relays in the circuit. Relays are the same. I'm just going to trace every wire by color 2 it's location and find whats wrong in the circuit. Like I said it has been altered and just going to have 2 replace those relays and key switch, I'm sure there is other problems in the safety circuit is why it has been altered. Just need to get time to do it right now.