total price on radiant heat

[mlinnane]

I am curious it seems like a lot of people on the board have done radiant heat in their barns I am curious how much it cost it you do not mind sharing the information;
1) What part of the country are you in a cold area?
2) What size area did you heat how many sq feet?
3) What size tubing did you use?
4) Are you happy with the amount of heat?
5) How much did it costs?

I just got a quote and this guy wants to do a section of my barn for
the 30'x40' area of your building.
Tubing wil be Wirsbo HePex with O2 barrier cable tied to wire mesh. (Wire mesh by others)
We will provide a temporary test manifold and charge the tubing circuits with pressure. (Includes a pressure gauge)

The toal for this would be $2807.00

From what I can tell this is about $1155.50 in material right off of Wirsbo web page. Which means to lay the tubing and tie it they want $1657 that is a good day wages if you can get it.

 

[czechsonofagun]

I have done it in electric cable:

- room 150 sf
- reinforced joist
- srewed on hardiback
- stapled cable and thermostat reader
- 5/8" of mortar mix to cover
- floating floor on top

We are in VA, the room is very comfortable with the warm floor, would do it again.

The cable I purchased from here:

http://www.appliedradiant.com/index.htm

and the total cost I am not sure about - but the cable was bit over a 1000 I think.

 

[Paddy]

I have a friend who is a plumber. He tells me it's $10 a sq foot turn key. This includes heating boiler, pumps ect. I find this a bit pricey. For a house, you will also need the duct work for AC. it's not so good to need 2 different systems.

 

[kmdigital]

As I recall, it cost me around $1.10 - $1.25 per sq ft for the underslab insulation, tubing and manifolds. Of course, I did all the work myself, and I bought the tubing at a contractors discount. I used 1/2" Kitec pex-al-pex pipe, which is a lot nicer to work with then the Wirsbo tubing because it stays where you put it and it is much easier to make nice corners with it.

I covered 2400 sq ft, with 400 sq ft at 12" on center and 2000 sq ft at 24" on center. Design temp for this are, north central Indiana, is around zero.

 

[mlinnane]

As I recall, it cost me around $1.10 - $1.25 per sq ft for the underslab insulation, tubing and manifolds. Of course, I did all the work myself, and I bought the tubing at a contractors discount. I used 1/2" Kitec pex-al-pex pipe, which is a lot nicer to work with then the Wirsbo tubing because it stays where you put it and it is much easier to make nice corners with it.

I covered 2400 sq ft, with 400 sq ft at 12" on center and 2000 sq ft at 24" on center. Design temp for this are, north central Indiana, is around zero.

Do you remember if you bought your tubing on internet or local. Your infotmation is very very helpful.

 

[bones1]

Internet link for tubing.Looks like the best way to go with the aluminum core.
http://www.radiantheatproducts.com/catalog.asp?prodid=358080&showprevnext=1

 

[kmdigital]

I bought the Kitec tubing at the local supply house, at the best contractor discount. I just looked it up, and the pipe and manifolds cost me a total of $740.53 back in 2003. I bought the Insultarp insulation online, and paid $1,418.34 including freight, which makes it almost twice as expensive as the tubing! I don't recall exactly how many feet of tubing I bought, but I think it was around 1,600', and I'm thinking that the price was around $0.39 to $0.43 per foot.

Anyway, this brings the actual price per sq ft to only $0.90, so it is less then I thought. And if I were doing it again I would use two 1" layers of high density styrofoam instead of the insultarp. It is cheaper and has a better R value. The reason for two 1 " layers is so that the joints can be overlapped with the second piece, although one 2" layer would be easier to lay and a little stronger.

For one thing, two 1" thick 4'x8' sheets are cheaper then one 2" thick sheet, and it will confrom better to the ground underneath when the concrete is poured, so at least in my estimation the concrete would be slightly less likely to crack if there happens to be a small void under the foam.

 

[kmdigital]

Also remember that all plumbers mark up the cost of the materials anywhere from 30% - 50%, and sometimes more, so he isn't actually getting $1,657 just for his labor. A good portion of that is markup, which usually ends up being the profit as it is hard to make money just selling labor at the usual hourly labor rate.

I know it seems hard to believe, but by the time you figure overhead, insurance, benefits, vacation, unproductive time, gas, repairs, training, depreciation, etc, etc, etc, a contractor has to charge at least four times his direct hourly wage to an employee just to break even. So if the employee gets paid $15 per hour, he has to charge around $60 per hour just to get close to breaking even or "maybe" making a very small profit on labor. Trust me, I know as I was a plumbing and HVAC contractor for 11 years. And if he is a union contractor his costs are even higher.

The worst of it is that unless the owner or a senior tech is doing the work, it is highly probable that the person(s) doing the work aren't nearly as skilled as they should be. Unless you are a union shop, the wages often aren't high enough to attract the best employees to a job that is often dirty and performed outside in the cold and heat, mud and snow. The best and brightest are pushed into college and white collar jobs instead of the trades, which leaves those that are left to perform the manual labor jobs that are becoming increasingly technical.

Why do you think it is so hard to find a good auto mechanic? The problem is the same in the building trades, and it is is very difficult to find a technician with a thorough understanding of how the entire system works and if it is operating within its design parameters. This is a huge problem in most of the blue collar trades.

 

[mlinnane]

I thought I would share the info I am getting back from the radiant heat suppliers in the area. total sq footage 5540
4 zones (zone1 1200sq ft, zone 2 1260sq, zone 3 1260sq, zone 4 1800sq.

Here is one quote for just materials for radiant heat for a 48 X90 and 30 by 40 T shaped pole barn there will be 4 zones. This estimate is for everything for future expansion space

8700 feet of 1/2 pex-al pex tubing .66 a foot $5742.00
4,300 pipe ties $258
40 Compressing fitting for 1/2 pex-al-pex pipe $268
1 aim 6 zone stainless manifold $423
2 aim 7 zone stainless manifold $992.58
4 taco 0011 cartridge circulator $764
4 taco 1 circulator flange set $43.44
3 taco flo check sweat $169
3 taco temping value $334.50
stub out got future use zone 5 $150
taco 1/2 fast fill pressure value $46.50
taco 1-1/4 vortech air eliminator $130
tk30 expansion tank $61.95
temperture guage T $33.34
AIM pressure releif value $39.76
aim boiler drain $4.30
1 ball sweat and sweat $18.40
filter with guages $84.44
boiler room in a box $1500
takagi t junior proprane $988.54
TK vent kit $155.33
total with no labor wow $12,418.70

www.aimradiantheating.com

I found one thing very neat please visit web page boiler room in a
box. has anybody installed one of these things before, it looks like
he saves a great deal of time!

 

[mlinnane]

Also remember that all plumbers mark up the cost of the materials anywhere from 30% - 50%, and sometimes more, so he isn't actually getting $1,657 just for his labor. A good portion of that is markup, which usually ends up being the profit as it is hard to make money just selling labor at the usual hourly labor rate.

I know it seems hard to believe, but by the time you figure overhead, insurance, benefits, vacation, unproductive time, gas, repairs, training, depreciation, etc, etc, etc, a contractor has to charge at least four times his direct hourly wage to an employee just to break even. So if the employee gets paid $15 per hour, he has to charge around $60 per hour just to get close to breaking even or "maybe" making a very small profit on labor. Trust me, I know as I was a plumbing and HVAC contractor for 11 years. And if he is a union contractor his costs are even higher.

The worst of it is that unless the owner or a senior tech is doing the work, it is highly probable that the person(s) doing the work aren't nearly as skilled as they should be. Unless you are a union shop, the wages often aren't high enough to attract the best employees to a job that is often dirty and performed outside in the cold and heat, mud and snow. The best and brightest are pushed into college and white collar jobs instead of the trades, which leaves those that are left to perform the manual labor jobs that are becoming increasingly technical.

Why do you think it is so hard to find a good auto mechanic? The problem is the same in the building trades, and it is is very difficult to find a technician with a thorough understanding of how the entire system works and if it is operating within its design parameters. This is a huge problem in most of the blue collar trades.

Please do not take this the wrong way, I do not mind somebody trying to make a living but charging $30,000 to install a system that costs about $12,000. As far as design goes the makers of radiant tubing design systems from what I can see the installer gets a diagram of how everything should be laid out. Just to lay tubing and hook system maybe 3 1/2 to 4 days of work if (espically if they use that boiler in a box) and they charge $18,000 man I bet everybody wishes they could get that an hour. Even if this took a week 40 hours. Divide 40 hours into $18,000 you $450 an hour. I am sorry that is
like stealing. I am sure their are people out there who pay it, but I am not one of them! no offense intended but I thought this was too much.