Fifelaker
Bronze Member
<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/O6rHeD5x2tI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> In this case "How many taps with a hammer will it take to break a cold lap" Me thinks not many.
Total welding newie here
- Thread starter Carol in CA
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<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/O6rHeD5x2tI" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe> In this case "How many taps with a hammer will it take to break a cold lap" Me thinks not many.
It looks to me as he's using them as non-critical stabilizing bars for the HF hitch. I don't think he'll be going around hitting it with a hammer. :laughing:
If it serves its purpose, which it appears that it does, what difference does it make if it's cold lap or not?
If it serves its purpose, which it appears that it does, what difference does it make if it's cold lap or not?
Shield Arc
Super Member
Mig welds are notorious for cold lap. When using the Mig process you want to run as hot as you can handle it. No one knows how much penetration the weld has when cold lapped. It's just a roll of the dice when the weld will let go.what difference does it make if it's cold lap or not?
Next Sodo will show us pictures of a trailer, or trailer hitch he built for his pickup with his under powered 120-volt Mig welder. Do you really want to follow something down the hiway that was welded with his Mig welder?
Sodo
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Next Sodo will show us pictures of a trailer, or trailer hitch he built for his pickup with his under powered 120-volt Mig welder. Do you really want to follow something down the hiway that was welded with his Mig welder?
I do understand the way welders have to pass inspection. You guys give each other a hard time but the world is safer place for it. But my stuff is safe. I do have trailers, and hitches that are 15 and more years old, all tested heavily, many loads, many miles - I know what works but I can cringe too (about other people welding stuff up!).
I Also understand that you hope its a cold lap (it's not). I wish I had more pictures for you to critique, but some of the stuff has been used so long it's all rusted and ugly (not broken and never will).
I have a 2" receiver cargo bench that if 2 guys stand on it it wheelies the ATV. The hitch withstands far more load than the ATV can ever experience.
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Fifelaker
Bronze Member
I do not "Hope" it's cold lap I know it is. Do you see how the toes of the bead are on top of the base metal? They never fused with the base metal that is why they lay on top.
Fifelaker
Bronze Member
I will add that you can help to keep that from happening you can preheat the part, use 100% co2 or the best cure is to use more amps.
Sodo
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It fused, I can see the puddle in the base metal when I'm welding it. I go ahead to preheat then back and dwell to keep the puddle hot thats why the weld piles up higher than necessary. These are things you learn to do when there's no knob to "11" (a situation that they would never teach in school). Agreed more amps is better but it can work.
Also that weld looks like it does because the two braces are not centered. And I dwelled there. The (right side) weld is going around the bend it's not the same as the left side weld. Agreed more power would have welded nicer but it this isn't a welding class, there's no grade, and it aint gonna bust.
I have preheated parts in the past with a roofing torch, that works too, of course, but its a lot of unnecessary steps for this item. True this is a heavy piece for a 120v welder. The beginning weld is the pre-heat, thats why it piled up high I was dwelling there, heating with wire. When I get to the other side it's now hot and a big fat fillet welds nicely. I suppose I could have started on the fillet and finished in front but thats 20/20 hindsight. This item was welded in-place (on the ATV) then rattle-canned and DONE!
If this was a production item, it would be welded properly on one side, with no fillet on the backside. A production welder has to do it per the drawing, pass inspection, or the part is SCRAP. I do understand you pro welders but you're applying unnecessary specifications from your world that are not required in mine. I can weld it on the backside, do more passes, whatever I want.
The only way it's going to "fail" is in "welding inspection" but I don't really care. There's 4 inches of weld (on each brace!), gimme a break it's 10x as strong as it needs to be…..:thumbsup:
Also that weld looks like it does because the two braces are not centered. And I dwelled there. The (right side) weld is going around the bend it's not the same as the left side weld. Agreed more power would have welded nicer but it this isn't a welding class, there's no grade, and it aint gonna bust.
I have preheated parts in the past with a roofing torch, that works too, of course, but its a lot of unnecessary steps for this item. True this is a heavy piece for a 120v welder. The beginning weld is the pre-heat, thats why it piled up high I was dwelling there, heating with wire
. When I get to the other side it's now hot and a big fat fillet welds nicely. I suppose I could have started on the fillet and finished in front but thats 20/20 hindsight. This item was welded in-place (on the ATV) then rattle-canned and DONE!If this was a production item, it would be welded properly on one side, with no fillet on the backside. A production welder has to do it per the drawing, pass inspection, or the part is SCRAP. I do understand you pro welders but you're applying unnecessary specifications from your world that are not required in mine. I can weld it on the backside, do more passes, whatever I want.
The only way it's going to "fail" is in "welding inspection" but I don't really care. There's 4 inches of weld (on each brace!), gimme a break it's 10x as strong as it needs to be…..:thumbsup:
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Mig welds are notorious for cold lap. When using the Mig process you want to run as hot as you can handle it. No one knows how much penetration the weld has when cold lapped. It's just a roll of the dice when the weld will let go.
Next Sodo will show us pictures of a trailer, or trailer hitch he built for his pickup with his under powered 120-volt Mig welder. Do you really want to follow something down the hiway that was welded with his Mig welder?
You took what I said out of context. I said that for his non-critical use in that application.
If he had a cold lap weld on a trailer on the highway, then of course that would be a critical application where if the weld failed then lives would be in danger. That's not the case here.
In his case with that little HF ATV hitch, it has a 3/4" bolt that actually secures it to the frame. It's not going to come off of there. He had welded on those braces to keep it from swiveling side to side.
I had one of them on my golf cart that I use to pull a little farm trailer around my place with. I found out that no matter how tight you get the bolt, it will still eventually want to move sideways. I kept mine from moving side to side with a U-bolt. And when I seen his pic, I knew he was keeping his from moving side to side by making some brackets for it. His brackets will probably work fine for that.
Sodo
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And when I seen his pic, I knew he was keeping his from moving side to side by making some brackets for it. His brackets will probably work fine for that.
Not just for the side to side but you're right about that too. I braced it to carry the tongue weight and not break the little tow-hitch off the ATV's cast aluminum differential case.
One thing you find out with a trailer on an ATV is that it's impossible to back the trailer; because the trailer ball is too close to the ATV rear axle. This arrangement moves the ball rearward to gain better trailer control. But it needs bracing to withstand the higher leverage.
The utility of the 2" receiver is useful too.
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Arc weld
Veteran Member
First of all, the very first post asking for advice only mentioned a newbie welder. There was no mention of what the intended projects or metal thickness would be. Typically farmers and hobbyists routinely weld 1/4" and thicker material. For 90%+ of them, a 220 volt welder is the best option. Duty cycle is important. I've seen some real cheap 110 volt machines with 10% duty cycle that would be totally useless. Having a better welding machine cuts the learning curve way down and makes it 100 times less frustrating to learn how to weld.
As far as Sodo's proficiency at welding, It begs the question... What exactly have you been doing for 40 years?:confused3:
It certainly wasn't trying to improve your welding skills. You would have been much better off not showing your welds than posting pictures of welds that would fail a high school welding test. Seriously!:ashamed: Unfortunately for you Shield Arc posts pictures that back up his claims and show what true craftsmanship is. A little practice and the proper instruction and anyone on this forum could produce similar results to Shield Arc in a few weeks. Your welds, if you can call them that, that Shield Arc pointed out are the EXACT reason why it's good to have a 220 volt welder. You never know what your next project will be. You're telling the OP and anyone else not to overbuy yet you've got over $4000 invested in your "portable" welding set up using a hobby welder. You could have bought a superior welder/generator for less money. You didn't show pictures of your other welds because they are rusty and crappy. The welds you showed were painted and crappy. You don't have to be a "pro" welder to take pride in your work and do it right the first time. By the way, I have never heard the term "dwelling" used in reference to welding. I thought a dwelling is a place where you live. Am I missing something?:laughing: