Tough decisions in the compact utility size

[greginfinity]

So I have decided that the SCUT sized tractors will be too small for my use, and are really pretty expensive for what you get. A few grand more gets you a lot more tractor. I have the following quotes for TLB (all hydro).

Kubota L2501: $32k
Deere 3025e: $29k
LS MT225e: $24k
Kioti CK2610: $27k
TYM T264: $22k

Kubota, TYM, and deere are local and could be delivered free. The LS includes shipping to my home. The kioti would need to be picked up. The annoying thing about the TYM, LS and Kioti is that the 0 percent financing requires another $2k fee or so. Right now I would rather hold on to my cash. Also, apparently dealers are moving product like crazy too so availability could get tough. Maybe I should wait for the economy to take a dump and all these tractors end up cheap on craigslist?

Anyone have any opinions or thoughts on these? Seems like I can't go wrong with any of them.

My use would be digging french drains, clearing logs and brush from my woods, some light brush hogging and general saving my back with various chores. I go back and forth between renting and buying but timing rentals seems tough compared to going out when I have free time to work in the woods.

Thanks for any advice!

 

[ovrszd]

Welcome to TBN.

If the economy didn't take a dump over the past six months it ain't going to.

I think availability may be an issue for awhile.

As to your listed choices, they are all reliable brands. Local dealer/parts support would be my concern.

Beyond that, I'd have to run each of them before I'd decide. Definitely wouldn't buy a TLB without running it. Digging dirt with the hoe. Not just driving around in a parking lot.

Good luck with your choice and follow up with your decision.

 

[jeff9366]

Anyone have any opinions or thoughts on these? Seems like I can't go wrong with any of them.

My use would be digging french drains, clearing logs and brush from my woods, some light brush hogging and general saving my back with various chores. I go back and forth between renting and buying but timing rentals seems tough compared to going out when I have free time to work in the woods.

What is the total acreage of your property?

How much of your total acreage is open to a tractor?

Is your land FLAT or will you operate over sloping ground regularly?

What about moving snow?

Most medium stance, compact tractors under 3,000 pounds bare weight operate in residential or hobby farm applications on one to ten FLAT acres.


I would not buy a compact tractor without a three (3) range HST transmission. Several of the tractors you are considering have two (2) range HST transmissions. In these max weight for <25-1/2 horsepower, Tier IV exempt tractors the lower LOW and higher HIGH of a three range HST transmission is important, especially on hills. The Backhoe option adds ~~700 additional pounds to tractor burden .

If you carry through on the Backhoe do not fill the rear tires with liquid. Additional weight will be a negative.

 

[greginfinity]

I have 6.5 acres, mostly woods. I want to pick away at clearing up to 1 acre. I don't have a lot of grass to mow and can do it with a push mower for now. The land is mostly flat. I don't plan on moving snow unless I really need to, have a plow truck for that. Thanks!

 

[jeff9366]

I have 6.5 acres, mostly woods. I want to pick away at clearing up to 1 acre. I don't have a lot of grass to mow and can do it with a push mower for now. The land is mostly flat. I don't plan on moving snow unless I really need to, have a plow truck for that. Thanks!

All the tractors you are considering have ample weight and ample ground clearance for your applications. Horsepower will not be "ample" but likely 'enough'.

I would not buy a compact tractor without a three (3) range HST transmission. Several of the tractors you are considering have two (2) range HST transmissions. In these max weight for <25-1/2 horsepower, Tier IV exempt tractors the lower LOW and higher HIGH of a three range HST transmission is important, especially on hills. The Backhoe option adds ~~700 additional pounds to tractor burden .

If you carry through on the Backhoe do not fill the rear tires with liquid. Additional 500 pounds taxing <25-1/2 horsepower will be a negative.

 

[rademamj1]

All are very capable tractors for working 6.5 acres. Tractor factories are shut down right now, and so available inventory is decreasing at incredible rates. Local Kubota dealer had 75 tractors on his lot three months ago. He is now down to 16 tractors, and no subcompact or compact tractors at all are left on his lot.

The Economy is already passed the danger point, and it's all up hill from this point. Texas is booming right now in everything but restaurant business. So waiting for prices to drop, is just not going to be a successful tractor buying strategy.

I talked to my Kioti dealer, and he says nobody charges a $2000 financing fee for 0% down. Most likely that is State and Local taxes and also Banking Fees rolled together. Kubota will simply allow you to finance the taxes and fees into your monthly payment over 6 years, and also have no payments for first 90 days.

Do you have enough work for your backhoe, because many first time tractor owners, buy a backhoe and then it sits for years after they have used it for just installing one culvert. My neighbor did that.

 

[jeff9366]

Do you have enough work for a $7,000 backhoe? Many first time tractor owners buy a backhoe and then it sits for years after they use it for installing one culvert. My neighbor did that.

= YES =

 

[greginfinity]

This is a great point. I guess my only real tasks in mind for the backhoe are stump removal and french drains. But maybe it makes sense to queue up a lot of stumps and have some real machinery do the job. And maybe the same for the drains. Are there some bucket or hitch attachments that help with this? I see a spade for the loader but that is probably slow. Maybe some sort of plow for the hitch?

 

[KennyG]

I would not buy a compact tractor without a three (3) range HST transmission. Several of the tractors you are considering have two (2) range HST transmissions. In these max weight for <25-1/2 horsepower, Tier IV exempt tractors the lower LOW and higher HIGH of a three range HST transmission is important, especially on hills. The Backhoe option adds ~~700 additional pounds to tractor burden .

The 2 range/3 range question has been argued here before. It seems all the "2 range is not adequate" people have 3 range tractors. Those of us with 2 range tractors never seem to have a problem. On lower horsepower tractors, they just don't have enough power to effectively use the higher gearing in a 3 range transmission. I've never felt like low range wasn't low enough and there is a reasonable overlap between ranges. The drive trains are engineered to match the machine, not to save money.

 

[kthompson]

I have looked at many different brands of tractors over the last say 30 years. Yep some are history. You do not want your brand or tractor to become history with no parts. I also want to know the dealership where I probably will buy but at least one more in reasonable distance. Even the most solid dealerships will close for one reason or another. You many never need any dealership, you may and if you do having depending dealer shop in decent distance is worth a lot and having parts is worth more. I recently bought my third Kubtoa, it was not my first choice. the biggest reason I did not was the second nearest dealership was over 100 miles away. That my friend will eat up a day and it would not be one trip but two if it needed to be there. Really stopped the deal totally.

I have a brother in law who has a 3000 series JD with two range HST, have used it when vacationing there and to me with fel work and heavy box blade work the two range HST worked great. My two Kubota's with HST are three range trans and I was as pleased with the JD HST as I am with the Kubota's HST.

 

[johncanfield]

My old Kubota L2900 was a shuttle shift. My Deere 4720 has a three range HST, the only time I put it in high range is driving to our mailbox at the end of the street. I absolutely love having a hydro transmission, it's faster and easier to use for mowing and loader work.

Like others mentioned, forget the backhoe. Rent a mini-ex if you need to dig, it's what they do best. My Kubota was a simple and reliable 30hp tractor but it had a very lousy seat. My Deere is a first class machine and I have two good dealers within 30 miles, the Kubota dealer is so-so. You can't go wrong picking a Deere or Kubota - they will be around for the long haul.

 

[rademamj1]

I must admit, I have a 3-range tractor and 99% of the working time is in the low or mid range. Hardly ever use the 3rd range. I have a single range Kubota lawn tractor, a GR2120 and it climbs hills better than my zero turn.

 

[Nb707]

Four 28,300 you can get a kioti dk 4710 hst cab 45 hp I’m not sure why you would not look at that model

 

[finn1]

I only use the third range when traveling on the road between my house and shop. Never when working the tractor. Having said that, my tractor top speed is advertised as 14 some mph. At that speed, I can barely keep it going straight when I hit dips and potholes on the county road.

Forget the backhoe. I went as far as getting quotes on one, but decided to buy a mini ex. If it’s out of your budget, just rent one when needed.

 

[rush389]

I just bought my first tractor, a 3025e. I was concerned about only having two ranges but after a few hours I cannot see a need for a third range.

 

[rScotty]

This is a great point. I guess my only real tasks in mind for the backhoe are stump removal and french drains. But maybe it makes sense to queue up a lot of stumps and have some real machinery do the job. And maybe the same for the drains. Are there some bucket or hitch attachments that help with this? I see a spade for the loader but that is probably slow. Maybe some sort of plow for the hitch?

From the list of things you say you want to do with your new compact tractor, it sounds to me like you might be doing a lot of backhoe work much like we do. A backhoe is a dandy landscaping tool even when you aren't digging. In fact, you might be looking for a TLB instead of a tractor with a backhoe. Here's a primer on TLBs vs Tractors with FELs & Backhoes for the next time you talk with a salesman at the dealership.

A compact TLB is very similar to a compact farm tractor, but it is more oriented to rural construction and landscaping instead of being agriculatural oriented.

Oh, back to the backhoe... not everyone wants one but for us it is important to have the backhoe handy all the time, because we use it more than any other implement on our property, but to our surprise it does very little digging. It is mostly used for picking heavy things up and placing them somewhere. Sort of a mobile crane instead of using our aging bodies... Stacking logs, placing machinery, or rocks, doing landscaping, building rock walls... yes, digging ditches too, but more often just planting a tree or lifting something heavy like a machine tool aor a tree to be planted into or out of the barn or pickup truck. With the thumb on the backhoe odd shapes can be grasped.

Compact tractors and compact TLBs look very similar, and both can do the same job. But they do those jobs a little differently.
For instance, the compact tractor has lighter weight because in mowing and some farming it is important that they don't sink into soft soil.
The compact TLB is more likely to be digging and carrying heavier loads on rough ground, so it is both heavier and more strongly built.

On a TLB, the backhoe is rigidly mounted and mounted to the back. It quick-disconnects and an optional 3pt hitch is mounted when you want to run other implements.

On a tractor, the 3pt hitch is the normal thing mounted to the back and implements are mounted to that. A backhoe is one of those implements that can be mounted either to the 3pt hitch or preferably to a special subframe that remains on the tractor.

Unfortunately Kubota is the only company making a compact TLBs right now. But they do make a very good one. The comparable model to the Kubota L2501 with a backhoe that you looked at would be the Kubota B26 which comes with a backhoe and is also 25hp and has a 3 speed HST. Look around on TBN to see how people like them.

Both tractors and TLBs are 4wd, have the same engine, similar transmissions, both have PTOs, and roughly equal front end loaders. If you look closely at how they are built - again compare Kubota's L2501 to their B26 - you will notice that a TLB frame and attachments have a construction heritage rather than agricultural heritage.
The extra beef in the TLB comes at a price; TLBs are more expensive than tractors - although by the time you add a backhoe to a tractor they are pretty close in price.

Both will do a lot of the same jobs; the difference is in the type of job they were designed to do most of the time.
rScotty

 

[WoodDuck]

This is a great point. I guess my only real tasks in mind for the backhoe are stump removal and french drains. But maybe it makes sense to queue up a lot of stumps and have some real machinery do the job. And maybe the same for the drains. Are there some bucket or hitch attachments that help with this? I see a spade for the loader but that is probably slow. Maybe some sort of plow for the hitch?

I passed on the backhoe attachment for my tractor too. Multiple people on this, and many other forums, agree that its not the best tool for stump removal. It worked out a lot cheaper and easier for me to line up several digging/stump removal projects, then knock them out quickly with a rented excavator. A decent sized excavator will work circles around a compact tractor backhoe removing stumps! If I had much digging to do on a regular basis, I'd probably opt for a regular full size backhoe in my case. Excavators are great, but out of my price range generally, and I'm not set up to haul anything that big anyway. But that $8000 for a backhoe to fit on my Kioti would go a long ways towards the purchase of a used full size backhoe that would dig circles around a "mini" hoe on a compact tractor. Also consider if you're likely to want to use the back end of the tractor for any other implements; because from what I've witnessed, it can be a royal PITA to get the backhoe back onto the tractor. Most people with hoes on their tractors leave them on for good reason.....

 

[jeremymayf]

Hey Greg, I would have difficulty timing rentals as well. Only you could say whether or not a backhoe is worth pursuing. How far away is the nearest machine rental shop? How are their prices, what equipment available e.g. mini ex, etc? rScotty has persuasive take on TLBs and their value, at least to me with the chores I need/want to do.

Besides the french drain and stumps, can you see other specific applications where a backhoe might help save your back? My wife is a good little trooper, but her days of playing day laborer in my harebrained projects are over. A backhoe with a thumb sounds like a very strong third hand to me (and a godsend to my wife lol).

Jeremy

 

[mred2]

I don't use my backhoe to dig stumps. I do use it to dig water lines, ditches, repair/replace culverts, and other back saving projects. I don't want to wait for a rental. When I have the time, I want it now. I can put the backhoe on or take it off in less than 10 minutes now. I have a dozer to dig stumps.

 

[johncanfield]

The downside to renting a mini-ex if you have never operated one before is the learning curve. It took me about 20 hours of seat time in my E42 before I was relatively productive. Even so, if you accumulate several digging projects rent a hoe for two, three weeks or a month. Some use a long term rental or lease equipment.