Towed vibrating roller

justractors · Apr 22, 2002

I am considering building a towed vibrating roller for packing a track for pulling Garden Tractors.
I attached a Works drawing of what I have in mind which is a smaller version of a towed unit I saw a a local golf course.
There are a couple of mistakes in the materials list but this is the general idea. I will probably go with a 48" unit instead of the 36" but am concerned with the trailering weight.
Any suggestions would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Bill

RobS · Apr 22, 2002

Bill, I'm not at all familiar with how a vibrating roller works. Can you explain for the curious among us? This might be a good implement for maintenance of dirt/gravel drives /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

centex · Apr 22, 2002

Is your plan to mount the 6" pipe off center or mount it on center and weld/bolt on the 1" stock to unbalance it? It would be good to have an easy way to adjust this. Maybe it would be easy to just add/remove stock to adust the eccentric weight. I would not think that it would take much weight to provide the right amount of vibration. I would probably forgo the external weight and devise a way to provide an adjustable offset for the 6" pipe.

If the roller is to be towed from a single point, I wonder if it would track very well without any crown on the roller. This could be problem going down a slope. I wonder if commercial rollers have a crown. If you mount it rigidly on a 3PT hitch you would have to lift it to make turns so it would not work too well on a curved path. Still it looks like a good design to me. I might build one myself but I would look for an old tank for the roller so the ends would be rounded and not sharp (and easier to handle empty.) I would use scrap materials to keep the cost down and do a lot of experimenting to get it right. On the other hand I have too many more important things to get done first so maybe I can learn from you and save the experimenting.

justractors · Apr 22, 2002

Yes the plan is to weld the 1" square to the 6" drum.
The amount of vibration will be controlled more by engine RPM than anything else.
It will be used primarily on flat level groud so crown is not important in this case.
I also plan on being able to fill the large drum with water for the added weight.
The well pipe I intend to use is 1/2" to 3/4" (depending on what is available then) in thickness and the end pieces on the larger drum will be about 1" smaller in diameter than the roller and after they are welded on the weld will be ground down enough to allow easier turns. The thick well pipe will be used to stop dents in the drum from allowing bumps in the finished product and for the extra weight.
Most of the material will come from the local metal scrap yard except for the pillow blocks, engine, sprockets, and chain. As soon as the snow up here decides to stop I will be walking the scrap and wrecking yards looking for that good junk others throw away.
I an using a Briggs and Stratton cast iron 8 hp engine for power and since it weighs about 100 pounds I will add a counterbalance to the other side.
Bill

PaulT · Apr 22, 2002

A friend bought a 6 foot 24" roller that weighs about 1600# empty, but can also be filled with h20. I had thought about converting it to a vibratory roller by welding a bar from each side up and across the roller. On this bar, I thought a rented tamper, fastened to the bar somehow, might be the best source of vibrations. Thoughts??

justractors · Apr 22, 2002

Sounds like it would wrk.
The rental of the tamper would be a concern plus the rack that holds it will have to be strong enoug to support the weight and constructed well enough to take the constant vibration.
I will use several 1/4" gusset plates on the one I am building.
Yours would also be hard to pull around with a garden tractor.
Bill

PaulT · Apr 23, 2002

<font color=blue>Yours would also be hard to pull around with a garden tractor.</font color=blue>

I would think so, too, but another friend just finished rolling his lawn with it using a garden tractor. It didn't have a vibrator, and I doubt he could have controlled it if it was filled. He said it worked well for him. I think the rolling resistance is much less than its weight would lead you to believe, even downhill, when the lawn is soft.

MODEERE · Apr 23, 2002

Looks like a good project, you might think about a belt drive. Chains do not like high rpm/ feet per second. When they are run fast they make a lot of noise, are hard to keep lubed, and will self destruct. I found out the hard way with a 101 cub puller, put a 25 hp twin cylinder on it with a double 60 chain from the motor to the input shaft on the trans. It worked until I rebuilt the motor with a few up grades ie TURBO. The chain lasted about ten seconds, motor came up on boost went to about 5000 rpm, chain made a exit through the custom hood that once looked like a IH 560. Now has 4in wide 8mm toothed belt .

Taylortractornut · Apr 24, 2002

Im a heavy equipment operator by trade, I used to operaste and old International Duo Pac roller that looked like a scraper. it had a hydraulic motor that was hooked to an ecntric shaft vi a 2 grove v belt. the one thin that was key to a vibrators life it the rubber engine/ motor mounts.ive been thinking of buildin one for my small contracting service. bst regaurds

chim · Apr 24, 2002

Sounds like a fun project, but how will you isolate the roller from the tractor? It would seem a metal-to-metal hitch would transmit the vibrations to the tractor..................chim

justractors · Apr 24, 2002

I did not find the vibration to be a problem on the larger unit.
Sitting in the tractor seat you can actually feel the vibration of the ground beneath you though. You could also feel the vibration standing on the ground up to about 10 feet from the roller.

I have thought about using belt drive from the engine to the vibrating roller and it is probably a good idea even though the engine rpm should be less than 3000 rpm.

Bill

PaulT · Apr 24, 2002

Can anyone here tell me what sort of total PSI is required to be effective at packing down crusher run in a driveway? THe roller I have access to is 6 feet wide and 24 inches diameter. It is heavy gauge steel, and can be filled with water, for a total weight of somewhere over a ton. What sort of footprint would this have in loosely spread crusher run (spread with a boxblade)? Obviously 6 feet wide by how many inches? Is that adequate with a vibrator mechanism on board?

Also, can someone post a better drawing of how the eccentric weight/shaft is mounted and connected to a drive motor of some sort? I can envision this, but I would like to validate my fantasy/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Soundguy · Apr 24, 2002

Define 'crusher run'. Are you refering to crushed concrete or gravel? Or reclaimed asphalt.
Reclaimed asphalt can be compacted, and the more weight the better.

Crushed concrete or gravel will not compact. You can drive it into the subgrade, and compact voids, possibly even fracture individual pieces with enough weight, but even then.. it would still be loose enough to dig by hand.... just mashed down making a footprint into the subgrade.

Soundguy

PaulT · Apr 25, 2002

Crusher run means different things to different folks, but generally it is the entire output of running rocks through a crusher. I suppose concrete chunks would produce about the same results - we just don't see that around here much, though. Probably because rocks are cheaper and easier to get than concrete chunks. Gravel is the output after it has been washed or screened clean of the fines, or dust and rock bits. When compacting crusher run, the rock chunks are compacted among the fines. Generally a very hard, flat surface can be achieved on top of the layer below (without pressing it into the sublayer). When this is rolled with a large multi-ton roller, the surface is appropriate for paving (assuming you have built the road bed accordingly). Even driving your vehicles repeatedly over this surface will produce a very hard, flat surface. After a few rains (not deluges - that can wash out the fines), the surface can get to be very very hard. I just refinished my 800 foot drive this way, but I could benefit from a roller going over it. That is why I would like to know how much pressure is required to roll the crusher run into the hard, ready-for-paving surface I have described? Can I do it with the roller I have described in my earlier post? I doubt it will work without a vibratory device, but what about with one??

Soundguy · Apr 25, 2002

I'm not sure what your local laws are.. but here in florida, we cannot use unconsolodated gravel as a finish grade material. The one conditional exception to this is a slaged road that has captive gravel embedded in tar can be overlayed.
Reclaimed concrete can be mixed into the subgrade as well as asphalt, etc. Incidentially, reclaimed concrete makes decent stabilizer material... very easy to get a high lbr with it.

Some states will let you pave over clay. Not having a sample of you 'crusher run' to examine the fines / silt content, etc.. I just cant say. Here, for instance, we need an lbr of 90+ ( load bearing ratio ).

Keep in mind that a vibratory roller is used for deep compaction, and a static weighted roller like a 3 wheeled steel wheel roller is used for the finish surface. A bituminous (liquid asphalt emulsion generally) product called prime or tack coat is used to treat the finished surface, before laying the asphalt. The tack coat serves as a joining medium from the substraight to the asphalt surface course.
Asphalt can also be laid directly on subgrade ( though much thicker ) and this method is called black base.
Here are some basic ideas, our vibratory rollers are approx. 2 tons, some models are 3. Our static steel wheel rollers are in the neighborhood of 6-8 tons.

I'll attatch a pic of our 3 ton unit. a yellow yardstick is included as reference. ( the 2 ton unit is just a smaller version, and seems to work fine )

"foot drive this way, but I could benefit from a roller going over it. That is why I would like to know how much pressure is required to roll the crusher run into the hard, ready-for-paving surface I have described? Can I do it with the roller I have described in my earlier post? I doubt it will work without a vibratory device, but what about with one?? "

Soundguy

PaulT · Apr 26, 2002

Did you go to school with PatrickG /w3tcompact/icons/clever.gif?

Here in upstate NY we can put any darn thing on our driveways we please (as long as it is not a substance on the EPA watchlist/w3tcompact/icons/shocked.gif). Otherwise, we vote out them pollytishuns thats made them stupid rules/w3tcompact/icons/tongue.gif.

I have no idea what "unconsolidated gravel" is/w3tcompact/icons/hmm.gif, nor do I think that knowing would help me answer my question in any way.

Soundguy (or anyone else, for that matter), do you know much psi a roller would need in order to compact crusher run if that roller could vibrate? Telling me how to build a road in Florida, or how much pressure a 2-ton roller produces really doesn't help me, or anyone else who wants to build a homemade roller for such a job.

Reminds of a guy I met at work when I first started. I was making the rounds with all of the folks I'd be working with, and he starts out our conversation by telling me that he LOVES to talk, so if I ask him what time it is, I better be prepared to learn how to make a watch/w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif. (I have been accused of this tendency on more than one occasion/w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif). He is a great guy, and I enjoy shooting the breeze with him when I have some free time.

Egon · Apr 26, 2002

Paul:

You can rent small self propelled hand steered vibratory water filled drum rollers that are carried around in the back of a P/U. They will do an adaquate job on a driveway so I don't see why your roller would not work. Maybe stop by a rental place and see how the vibrating mechanism is made.

Egon

PaulT · Apr 26, 2002

Thanks Egon, that's a good point. I have seen these things, and I've seen how they work on paved sidewalks, small driveways, etc. The finished product looks pretty good. It would make sense that if these things can compact stuff that well, that the roller I want to make (which should be heavier) should work, too.

Paul

tc35dforme · Apr 26, 2002

Paul,

I'm no expert, but I think the compaction force is a function of the grade of the crusher-run. If you are using a large grade ( 3" minus ) you'll need more whack to pack it ... a coat of 1 1/2" minus or even smaller should pack well with less force. The stone dust you use under a patio is rock hard with only a bit of compaction. the small stuff just doesn't have the air space to loose !!

justractors · Apr 26, 2002

Whow, learned a lot more than I originally intended.
I will be using my roller primarily to pack down a 20' wide by 250' long pulling track that is a flat as we can get it.
Very little crown but the track is raised about a foot above the surrounding grade to keep the water off.
The track is about a 40% clay to 60% sand mix about 8" deep over a packed "road gravel" base about 12" deep over the normal Northern Lower Michigan sand base.
The track is normally disced up weekly to a depth of about 4", then watered, and then packed very well.
Bill