Towing 10,000lbs with 1/2 ton, or upgrade?

[Diamondpilot]

What ever you get skip the F-250. In my opinion they should not make any 3/4 tons. Just 1 tons with SRW and Dually. If you get the F-250 you will be in the same spot you are now a few years down the road. I have a 04 F-250 and a 06 SRW F-350 and both are diesel 4x4 and both have been dead reliable. The F-350 is hands down more truck. Its hard to explain but kind of like going from a Ranger to a F-150. The boat we tow will drop the F-250 8-9 inches while the SRW F-350 only drops 2 inches and feels so much more secure towing.

As for the V-10 my uncle has had 2 and zero issues in a F-250 and now a SRW F-350, and yes he does own a gas station. He uses his for work, plowing, and towing. He has seen as low as 3 mpg and as high as 12 but he averages 8. He has the 4.30 gears.

Chris

 

[KeithInSpace]

You can't get a 12000 lbs trailer, and pull it with a truck only rated for 10000 lbs and be legal.

From Virginia: I checked into this before purchasing my 10k# capacity trailer to be pulled by my 9.2k# towing capacity truck. I actually found the language in DOT code regarding the issue and it was very clear...the TOWED WEIGHT of the trailer is the defining characteristic. The rig must be weighed and compared to the GCVWR to determine if you are "in bounds".

You can't be ticketed for towing air. Defies logic. I'm not saying that some communist hasn't gotten this into DOT code somewhere...all I'm saying is that for me to BELIEVE this old wive's tale, I want to see a quote or link, chapter and verse, to someone's state code or state DOT requirements.

Then I'll avoid that state like the plague.

2005 F-150, 4x4, Screw, King Ranch with 3.73 gears. ...What would YOU do?

My 2005 Eddie Bauer Expedition is very similar to your truck. Same engine and if you have the tow package, same optional gears.

I have loaded my truck to capacity (9,000# trailer) with bumperpull and WD hitch and it did OK. When you get that much weight, you start feeling the "wiggle" on the rear tires when pulling through a corner and need to put it in AWD to not slip around getting started on gravel. I really like the engine and its wonderful blend between power and economy, but this type of load really is at its upper limit.

Honestly, I have no idea what you should do. I've given considerable thought to the matter and this is where I've headed thus far:
--IF I got a pickup to better my tow capabilities, I'd get a 1 ton diesel.
--IF I was changing to gooseneck, I'd get a dually.
--IF I stay bumperpull (which I will for the next 15 years, give or take), I'd stay single-rear-tire.
Unfortunately, circumstances demand an SUV for me, so I need to wait until they come out with the small-displacement diesels for me to make any change...think 3/4 ton Diesel Suburban...

My wife heavily influences our purchasing decisions, even on things that don't have any real impact to her. When all I had was my utility trailer, she wouldn't HEAR of me purchasing a diesel. "Stinky", she would say. Now that we pull a travel trailer for hundreds and hundreds of miles over mountain roads, she finally said it..."Honey, do you think a diesel would be better for pulling this?" "Yes, dear. It would." "OK, then. You need to get a diesel in your next truck."

And so it goes.

WHAT WOULD I DO? Probably, I would get a 12k# bumperpull trailer and WD hitch. I'd balance your tractor over the trailer wheels instead of over the trailer ball to help with your sag issues. I'd thusly use the rig until my truck was ready for replacement, then I'd get a 1 ton diesel.

 

[Raw Dodge]

WHAT WOULD I DO? Probably, I would get a 12k# bumperpull trailer and WD hitch. I'd balance your tractor over the trailer wheels instead of over the trailer ball to help with your sag issues. I'd thusly use the rig until my truck was ready for replacement, then I'd get a 1 ton diesel.

This is dangerous advice,irreguardless of the tow vehicle.You NEED that heavy tongue weight even more so with a light tow vehicle.The rear truck tires are what guides and controls the trailer.If you keep them light,in an emergency or just a gravel road,you could lose control,and the rear of the tuck could get pushed creating a jacknife or worse flip it over.
If anything add a few hundred more to the tongue by putting the tractor more forward,and use weight distribution bars to put some weight forward on the tow vehicle,but keep the tongue at 10-12% minimum.
You could easily lose control even with a 3500 dually towing that load with too light tongue weight.

 

[flusher]

This is dangerous advice,irreguardless of the tow vehicle.You NEED that heavy tongue weight even more so with a light tow vehicle.The rear truck tires are what guides and controls the trailer.If you keep them light,in an emergency or just a gravel road,you could lose control,and the rear of the tuck could get pushed creating a jacknife or worse flip it over.
If anything add a few hundred more to the tongue by putting the tractor more forward,and use weight distribution bars to put some weight forward on the tow vehicle,but keep the tongue at 10-12% minimum.
You could easily lose control even with a 3500 dually towing that load with too light tongue weight.

YOu bet.
If I were towing near capacity on a trailer, I'd invest $129 and get one of these tongue scales to be sure I'm balanced correctly.

Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales

 

[Jim2]

I think I would seriously consider getting a used tractor for the other place. You're not a contractor, right? You only need the tractor at your two different places. If you can pick something up cheap and use it for a while, you may even be able to sell it for the same money when you're done with it.

You ain't gonna make money hauling your stuff around on the highway.

Jim

 

[Duffster]

YOu bet.
If I were towing near capacity on a trailer, I'd invest $129 and get one of these tongue scales to be sure I'm balanced correctly.

Sherline Trailer Tongue Weight Scales

Nothing wrong with getting the scale but a little towing experience will tell you when it is loaded just right.

 

[KeithInSpace]

You NEED that heavy tongue weight even more so with a light tow vehicle.

Of course, in that 10% to 15% sweet spot. Apologies if my message was read as not having any weight on the ball...that's just silly.

Taking my utility trailer as an example: Without any load, straining, I can BARELY get the tongue jack off the ground...something around 300#. About right for a ~2,000# trailer. I put my baby tractor (with FEL and BH mounted) along with my box blade onboard and it is now a ~5,500# trailer. To be within the 10% to 15% threshold, all I need is ~300# to 500# more on the tongue (600# to 800# tongue weight). All that requires is placing my box blade at the front of the trailer and getting the COG of the tractor somewhere over, or just in front of, the front axle of my trailer. IT DOESN'T TAKE MUCH.

What really get my goat is folks that take their 30 HP tractor and drive it straight onto their bumperpull trailer, front wheels to the front trailer rail, back wheels somewhere around the axle, chain it down (if you're lucky) and call it good.

"Having heavy tongue weight" is no better advise than having no tongue weight at all.

Of course the intent of my input was to have the appropriate amount of tongue weight. Honestly, 2 out of 3 trailers I see on the road are VERY badly loaded and seem as though the owner/user forgot that THE TRAILER AXLES ARE THERE TO CARRY THE TRAILER LOAD.

What you don't see in the attached picture is my box blade (250#), 3PH reciever hitch (50#), and middle-buster plow (50#) against the front of the trailer. I load the tractor WITHOUT the WD trunnion bars installed so I can judge (by rear end squat) how much tongue load I put on the truck. I stop pulling forward when there is enough.

 

[JasG]

From Virginia: I checked into this before purchasing my 10k# capacity trailer to be pulled by my 9.2k# towing capacity truck. I actually found the language in DOT code regarding the issue and it was very clear...the TOWED WEIGHT of the trailer is the defining characteristic. The rig must be weighed and compared to the GCVWR to determine if you are "in bounds".

You can't be ticketed for towing air. Defies logic. I'm not saying that some communist hasn't gotten this into DOT code somewhere...all I'm saying is that for me to BELIEVE this old wive's tale, I want to see a quote or link, chapter and verse, to someone's state code or state DOT requirements.

What I was told by I DOT officer at a safety check point was I could be sited for non-compliance. They looked at my trailer tag and then guessed at what my GCWR on my 6 wheel dumper was, they did not care what my registration said. That day all I was hauling was a skid-steer, so I was not overloaded on a 20 ton trailer registered for 15. He may very well have made it up I don't know, I wasn't going to question him while he was looking my stuff over. As far as NY being communist, you obvoiusly have no idea about NY, they just about are. In the last 5 years they have changed rules and regulations to the point it's just nuts. It use to be you registered your truck for the GCW you wanted, and trailers were I think about $14.00. Now you have to register your trailer for the wieght you want to carry, and it's not cheap. A lot of people I know have started registering trailers in Maine due to this, another example of NY's penny wise pound foolish ways.
Here even the licences have changed, a few years ago an F-350 pulling a trailer needed a non-CDL class C, yet you could drive a calss A motor home without anything other than a driving license. Driving out of class is if your truck was rated heavy enough you needed the non-CDL-C didn't matter what you registered it for. So for the most part 1 ton truck should have had this licence. Now I think they dropped that due to no one I know of enforced it, for once common sence prevailed. You want to talk about stupid, NY just this year changed the requirments for firemen. They can drive a truck to an emergency if the truck falls under what would normally be a CDL without a CDL. They can not drive it back, or anywhere beyond that. There is a bill to change this back, but how stupid can you be, they can drive it to the fire, but not back. Where I live most of the firemen are not full time guys and aren't paid. Why should they need the added hassel of a med card and CDL? As long as the department has a program to train them who cares. NY you also have to maintain your Med card to keep your CDL even if at the time you are not currently using your CDL. Other states you only have to have it if you are driving under what would be CDL requirments.
Fed regs and I think every other state air brakes is an endorcement on your CDL, not here it's a restriction. Just to be different.
I could go on and on about the stupid things for 3 or 4 pages just on NY DOT laws. I am glad they have started cracking down on some of the weight laws due to safety, but some of the things are just plain dumb.

 

[Duffster]

Fed regs and I think every other state air brakes is an endorcement on your CDL, not here it's a restriction. Just to be different.

Air brakes are a restriction in the Federal regs and every other state that I know of.

 

[JasG]

Air brakes are a restriction in the Federal regs and every other state that I know of.

What I have been told is in every other state, and I don't know not seeing any other states CDL, the licence will state something about air brakes qualified. I have seen job postings requirering an air brake endorcement in other states. Here in NY your licence won't say anything unless you don't qualify for air brakes, then it will say air brakes restricted. I could be wrong, but the language was different than the fed regs at the time I looked into it. Maybe someone from outside NY with a CDL can tell us if that is the case.

Like I said NY has changed rules and language every year for the past 5 or 6 years. It's very hard to keep up. DMV and DOT aren't any help, if you ask 5 DMV and 5 DOT people the same questions you are likely to get 6 -10 different answers. Each answer was probably correct at 1 time or another. I had a friend who was in trucking who when fuel spiked go out of it, due to it wasn't worth keeping up with all the rules and regs and in the end making just enough to pay the bills and keep the truck running. Now you may not ever be cited, but this person was very by the book and wanted to alway be on top of things. Part of me believes these changes are just for lawyers, so god forbid you have an accident your fault or not someone can sue.


Note: I must have miss read or had some old information, the fed regs do state it as being a restriction. Yet NC it lists air brakes under endorcements.