Towing 14K trailer

[KB9UDE]

I have a 14K bumper pull trailer that I haul my John Deere 4120 with loader and attachments on. I currently use a 1990 Chevrolet 2500 4x4 truck. Is this truck rated for this load or do I need to look for a 1 ton??

John

 

[Duffster]

you will be fine

 

[wkpoor]

About the only difference between your truck and a 1ton is the brakes if comparing single rear wheel. You probably have the Corporate 14 bolt rear end same as the 1ton. So I would say no problem.

 

[George2615]

Tractordata says your tractor is about 3700# plus loader, loaded tires, trailer weight, fuel, chains etc. Seems like your total is going to be at or under 7K so I don't see any problem using your truck to haul it.

 

[burnetma]

You'll be all right with the 4120 & 2320. Just do not try a 4020!

 

[FlaDon]

Truck can pull it but what does the DOT guy with the little blue lights think? 14K trailer GVWR puts you in the CDL Class A range. What is the truck's GCWR? What is the truck's hitch rated for? Depending on your state, some are very eager to make the state some extra money.

 

[Builder]

Truck can pull it but what does the DOT guy with the little blue lights think? 14K trailer GVWR puts you in the CDL Class A range. What is the truck's GCWR? What is the truck's hitch rated for? Depending on your state, some are very eager to make the state some extra money.

No it does not. In most states, except CA and maybe NY, CDL range is a GCWR of 26,001 lbs or more provided the trailer is 10,001 lbs or more.

His truck & trailer does not have a GCWR of 26,001 lbs or more. Therefore, he is not required to have a CDL.

That takes care of the licensing part. Now to the truck part:

you will be fine

He won't be fine until he reads his owners manual and checks his truck's TT capacity. My gues is a max of 10,000 off the bumper. I'd be he is well in excess of his trucks TT capacity IF the trailer is a fully loaded 14K trailer. O/P says trailer isn't fully loaded, but the last PA State cop I talked to said it is illegal to pull a trailer beyond your TT capacity, even if it is empty.

Your state may say differently.

You don't need to necessarily "look for a 1-ton". You need to do your homework and look for a truck that is rated to pull 14K off the bumper. Most SRW 1-tons are not rated to pull 14K off the bumper, especially older ones. In fact, a lot of DRW 1-tons are not rated to pull 14K off the bumper. My SRW 1-ton is rated to pull 12K off the bumper and it's an '07 diesel.

My suggestion would be to investigate if your current truck could do a 14K 5th wheel and if so, switch to a 5th wheel trailer. That would be cheaper than swithcing trucks. If it won't then try a 5th wheel trailer and an older SRW 1-ton or dually if money is tight.

If money not a problem, buy a newer duallie and keep your trailer. Just make sure that dually can pull 14K off bumper. Many can't!

 

[wkpoor]

Based on your statement Builder Ohio should have no financial problems. They could be writing citations by the thousands here. People I know with businesses have 14K BP trailers they use every day. And like I've mentioned before the # of tandem duallies is as plentiful as dandelions behind 3/4 and 1 ton trucks here. Heck when you get right down to it 99% of the 14K's sold are for light truck use. If everyone was made to own up to the letter of some law trailers sales would go flat the next day.
Here is my take, the ratings on these trucks needs to be looked at with a grain of salt. Most light SUV's with coil spring suspension have a greater factory recommended towing limit than my 1ton van. Now it doesn't take a genius to know something ain't right about that. I saw a trailblazer once that the hitch had higher limits on the sticker than I did on the original hitch. Thats when I figured if the mfg is that far off then I'll figure whats best for me as long as its legal and in the state of Ohio I am.
Good example is the marketing wars going on with 1/2tons. Now do you really think a 1/2 is a capable as a 1ton? Any 1ton regardless of age. Well if you have a 10yr old 1ton the new 1/2 ton is probably rated as high or higher. Its a joke in my book. I'll agree 14K is pushing the limits of light truck BP but I believe its OK and can be done safe.

 

[Diamondpilot]

How do you figure you can re due the laws? If a truck has a GCWR of say 20,000# there is nothing you can do to up that. I do not care what type of brakes you add, lower gears, air bags, engine/tranny mods, ect. Its still limited by the manufacture and that is what the DOT goes by. Now I agree adding any or all these items will make it tow and handle better but it does not allow you to legally increase the tow rating of the truck.


And yes, it is a war between the 1/2 tons right now but I can tell you for a fact that any of the 5 1/2 tons on the market will out tow, brake, and perform any gas 3/4 ton made just 15 years ago with the exception of in the bed payload.

Chris

 

[wkpoor]

I think it boils down to weight of the vehicle and brakes not engine/tranny combo for tow ratings. At least in Ohio, you will not get sited for trailer/payload but how your load is secured is a factor. As long as you are under 26,000lbs I don't think anyone will stop you here. And that goes on perception if your truck and trailer aren't marked. Basically about any PU trailer combo if it looks reasonable will be OK. Besides I guarantee few officers now the difference between a 7K,12K or 14K trailer and they certainly don't know what your mfg CGWR is.
But I was comparing a gross difference between a small SUV and a 1ton truck. I realize the whole 3/4 thing is blurred now. Also remember I done the test with a new 1/2t ( supposed 10K tow rating) and my van. I think the mfg are full of crap. It ain't close IMO.

 

[Diamondpilot]

I think it boils down to weight of the vehicle and brakes not engine/tranny combo for tow ratings. At least in Ohio, you will not get sited for trailer/payload but how your load is secured is a factor. As long as you are under 26,000lbs I don't think anyone will stop you here. And that goes on perception if your truck and trailer aren't marked. Basically about any PU trailer combo if it looks reasonable will be OK. Besides I guarantee few officers now the difference between a 7K,12K or 14K trailer and they certainly don't know what your mfg CGWR is.
But I was comparing a gross difference between a small SUV and a 1ton truck. I realize the whole 3/4 thing is blurred now. Also remember I done the test with a new 1/2t ( supposed 10K tow rating) and my van. I think the mfg are full of crap. It ain't close IMO.

I can find all the info on any vehicle made in the last 10 years. I have a book that list all the info. For example in you case I would look up GM-Van-1 Ton-Engine-Tranny-2 wheel/4 wheel- then gear ratio and it will give me all the info including MAX tow rating. If I can get the info I am sure they can. I only get the book that deals with the last 10 years because thats what my customers drive but there is info books that go back way farther. I also have it as a file on my work computer that just has drag down menu's.

Indiana is just the same as Ohio. If it looks reasonable you will not get stopped. I have driven well over 150,000 miles towing in the last 12-15 years and never been stopped 1 single time. Granted, most of my towing is around Indiana, Ohio, Western PA, Kentucky, and Tennessee. I keep my trailer and truck looking nice which helps a lot (junk attracts attention), tie down my cargo, and make sure my tires and lights are up to snuff and they just let me blow on by.

Chris

 

[Builder]

Based on your statement Builder Ohio should have no financial problems. They could be writing citations by the thousands here. People I know with businesses have 14K BP trailers they use every day. And like I've mentioned before the # of tandem duallies is as plentiful as dandelions behind 3/4 and 1 ton trucks here. Heck when you get right down to it 99% of the 14K's sold are for light truck use. If everyone was made to own up to the letter of some law trailers sales would go flat the next day.
Here is my take, the ratings on these trucks needs to be looked at with a grain of salt. Most light SUV's with coil spring suspension have a greater factory recommended towing limit than my 1ton van. Now it doesn't take a genius to know something ain't right about that. I saw a trailblazer once that the hitch had higher limits on the sticker than I did on the original hitch. Thats when I figured if the mfg is that far off then I'll figure whats best for me as long as its legal and in the state of Ohio I am.
Good example is the marketing wars going on with 1/2tons. Now do you really think a 1/2 is a capable as a 1ton? Any 1ton regardless of age. Well if you have a 10yr old 1ton the new 1/2 ton is probably rated as high or higher. Its a joke in my book. I'll agree 14K is pushing the limits of light truck BP but I believe its OK and can be done safe.

As of right now in my state (PA), when you go to apply for registration for truck & trailer, you must PROVE the towing vehicle's towing capacity and GCWR with a manufacturer spec from your owners manual to obtain a requested GCWR registration sticker. So if I bring a 3/4 ton chevy in and apply for enough registration to 22K, they will only give me up to the true GCWR, which is probably 18K, which is not going to give the OP enough registration weight to pull a 14K trailer.

That's to keep these "geniuses" from pulling 14K with a truck with a GCWR rating of only 18-20K.

Maybe Ohio is still like the wild west and you can do whatever you want.

Here's my "take" on it: These so called "experts" that tow beyond their trucks GCWR are just living on borrowed time. They're an accident waiting to happen. The reason they say "aww heck, my truck handles it fine" is because they've never had to make a serious emergency manuever. "Crap, I've gone 3 years without ever slamming on my brakes" gives them a false sense of security. Some day it'll happen, and they'll see what happens to a truck built too light for its' trailer.

Maybe Ohio is different, that is why if you go back and read my previous post you'll see I said: "Your state may say differently".

All I can say is: "Good luck, be carefull, and please stay off the road when my family is on the road." And "why don't you buy a truck rated for the task you want to perform instead of trying to push an underbuilt truck past its' limits, endangering yourself and other drivers?"

 

[Builder]

I can find all the info on any vehicle made in the last 10 years. I have a book that list all the info. For example in you case I would look up GM-Van-1 Ton-Engine-Tranny-2 wheel/4 wheel- then gear ratio and it will give me all the info including MAX tow rating. If I can get the info I am sure they can. I only get the book that deals with the last 10 years because thats what my customers drive but there is info books that go back way farther. I also have it as a file on my work computer that just has drag down menu's.

Indiana is just the same as Ohio. If it looks reasonable you will not get stopped. I have driven well over 150,000 miles towing in the last 12-15 years and never been stopped 1 single time. Granted, most of my towing is around Indiana, Ohio, Western PA, Kentucky, and Tennessee. I keep my trailer and truck looking nice which helps a lot (junk attracts attention), tie down my cargo, and make sure my tires and lights are up to snuff and they just let me blow on by.

Chris

Obviously the reason is because you're pulling boats. Boats & RV's all go into the same "private/RV/not for hire" non-commercial use and they don't actively persue those people, although they should because unlike commercial drivers, few have any formal training. I see people walk into an RV rental and rent a tandem motor home with an CAT pusher with a standard driver's license. Stupid.

If you tried pulling 14-16K of dozer, bobcat, backhoe, etc. behind your work truck, you won't be doing much "blowing by" cops in PA. I get pulled over with well maintained equipment for routine inspections, first thing they ask for other than license is registration, which makes it easy for them to tell if you're over GCWR by manufacturer or by what you're towing.

You're not gonna get a weight class 5 or 6 sticker on a 1-ton pickup in PA unless you're the governor's son in law.

Ohio/Indiana might be a different story.

 

[FlaDon]

No it does not. In most states, except CA and maybe NY, CDL range is a GCWR of 26,001 lbs or more provided the trailer is 10,001 lbs or more.

His truck & trailer does not have a GCWR of 26,001 lbs or more. Therefore, he is not required to have a CDL.

That takes care of the licensing part. Now to the truck part:



He won't be fine until he reads his owners manual and checks his truck's TT capacity. My gues is a max of 10,000 off the bumper. I'd be he is well in excess of his trucks TT capacity IF the trailer is a fully loaded 14K trailer. O/P says trailer isn't fully loaded, but the last PA State cop I talked to said it is illegal to pull a trailer beyond your TT capacity, even if it is empty.

Your state may say differently.

You don't need to necessarily "look for a 1-ton". You need to do your homework and look for a truck that is rated to pull 14K off the bumper. Most SRW 1-tons are not rated to pull 14K off the bumper, especially older ones. In fact, a lot of DRW 1-tons are not rated to pull 14K off the bumper. My SRW 1-ton is rated to pull 12K off the bumper and it's an '07 diesel.

My suggestion would be to investigate if your current truck could do a 14K 5th wheel and if so, switch to a 5th wheel trailer. That would be cheaper than swithcing trucks. If it won't then try a 5th wheel trailer and an older SRW 1-ton or dually if money is tight.

If money not a problem, buy a newer duallie and keep your trailer. Just make sure that dually can pull 14K off bumper. Many can't!

In order for him to tow on the hitch legally, he's going to need a 4500/F-450series truck. Both of which will put him into the 26K GCWR. Most 3500s are factory rated at 12K max on a bumper hitch. As for Commercial license, several states require it if the truck has a GVWR of over 10K. And DOT numbers. Florida says you must if you are greater than 18K and Intrastate. Once the DOT guy stops you for one thing, they have been known to check all the specs. Not having a truck rated for the hitch load will get the trailer out of service until someone shows up with a properly rated truck. As for the gooseneck or 5th wheel, you're right on him being able to do it with a properly geared 3500, but he'd have to see what the factory rated his current truck at and bet it wouldn't be.

 

[FlaDon]

Obviously the reason is because you're pulling boats. Boats & RV's all go into the same "private/RV/not for hire" non-commercial use and they don't actively persue those people, although they should because unlike commercial drivers, few have any formal training. I see people walk into an RV rental and rent a tandem motor home with an CAT pusher with a standard driver's license. Stupid.

If you tried pulling 14-16K of dozer, bobcat, backhoe, etc. behind your work truck, you won't be doing much "blowing by" cops in PA. I get pulled over with well maintained equipment for routine inspections, first thing they ask for other than license is registration, which makes it easy for them to tell if you're over GCWR by manufacturer or by what you're towing.

You're not gonna get a weight class 5 or 6 sticker on a 1-ton pickup in PA unless you're the governor's son in law.

Ohio/Indiana might be a different story.

Conn is one state that wouldn't let him fly as boat trailers aren't exempted from the comm status there. Only travel trailers, motor homes, and camping trailers. And yep Builder, times are changing. PA didn't used to be that way either. Up to about 5 years ago, my dually was illegal on some roads there too. Due to width. People that come down here with tow rigs like a 4500 had better keep the trailer attached or have a CDL as our local DOT people aren't cutting them any slack. And Indiana doesn't even meet Fla's requirements for licenses.
Ohio has a weigh station rule by empty weight. Anything over 8K empty needs to go in. Even rented trucks for personal use. Does Diamondpilot go in I wonder?

 

[Cat_Driver]

I know everyone is talking about the DOT people but the people you all need to be worried about the legal people.

In an accident even if it's not your fault you will be responsible for the accident according to the lawyers.

When the lawyers get involved because a person pulling a trailer does not follow the law or specs on their vehicle will lose everything they currently own, their house, cars, kids college fund etc. is it worth it?

Chances are even your own insurance will not honor your claim, check out your policy and see if there isn't a cause that says "doing something illegal" ...and yes overloading a vehicle if illegal in most states.

So the debate goes on, YES the vehicle CAN tow that much, but is it safe and legal NO.

Everyone has to make their own decisions, personally gambling with safety and carry weights isn't a decision I like to play games with.

I've been to too many depositions and lawyers know how to make you sqirm when you are not 100%.

Example of a question a lawyer would ask:

So MR. So and so, you know your vehicle was rated at carrying ( x ) amount of weight yet you decided to carry ( xxxx) amount is that correct?

Also Mr. so and so you know your vehicles brakes were rated at safely stopping your vehicle at ( x ) weight and you were carrying ( xxx ) amount, how did you figure your vehicle was going to stop safely ....are you an engineer Mr. so and so.

SO am I correct to assume Mr. so and so had you been at the correct weight you could have stopped according to the manufacturers specs on your vehicle?

What was that Mr. so and so , please speak up, so the jury can hear you.

I think you get my point.

 

[Skyco]

Valid point about insurance. I once stumbled across a case in SC where a trailer broke loose and injured two people in the aftermath. Insurance declined to pay and it all rested on the trailer owner and builder. The policy had a clause about max trailer weight, and it was exceeded, making it void. Talk about ruining several peoples lives with injured parties and a guy who thought he was insured getting nailed for all the costs....

 

[wkpoor]

The one gray area in all this could be the ACTUAL weight of the trailer. Not what its rated for. I said many times I would rather be over trailered than under. When I had a 7K trailer it was admittedly frequently overloaded. Now that I have a 14K it is always underloaded with the exact same loads. I have less chance of a tire blowout,axle failure, or bearing failure. All staying within the mfg CVWR.
Now I now some states go on the trailer rating, not actual weight of the trailer for the law. But why couldn't a mfg derate a trailer. I could have a local shop build me a trailer to my specs and put whatever rating on it to satisfy what I'm towing it with as long as it stays at or below axle ratings. And while we are on the the whole trailer safety issue, and I've mentioned this before, who in this country regulates the trailer mfg industry? I've seen 14K trailers that weren't built much better than my old 7K.
We are all bent around the axle about safety in towing but I think we need to look at the whole picture here.
I was just up to the neighbors yesterday and he came home with his BH from work. The trailer was a tandem dully. Frame and cross members were exactly the same size, weight, and construction as my 14K. Best part was were both I beams came together in the front were cracked right across the top. I pointed this out to him and he just shrugged his shoulders as if to say it ain't mine....its the company's. And this tows that BH around every day some where. And we are worried about a 1ton truck with a 14K trailer?

 

[FlaDon]

The one gray area in all this could be the ACTUAL weight of the trailer. Not what its rated for. I said many times I would rather be over trailered than under. When I had a 7K trailer it was admittedly frequently overloaded. Now that I have a 14K it is always underloaded with the exact same loads. I have less chance of a tire blowout,axle failure, or bearing failure. All staying within the mfg CVWR.
Now I now some states go on the trailer rating, not actual weight of the trailer for the law. But why couldn't a mfg derate a trailer. I could have a local shop build me a trailer to my specs and put whatever rating on it to satisfy what I'm towing it with as long as it stays at or below axle ratings. And while we are on the the whole trailer safety issue, and I've mentioned this before, who in this country regulates the trailer mfg industry? I've seen 14K trailers that weren't built much better than my old 7K.
We are all bent around the axle about safety in towing but I think we need to look at the whole picture here.
I was just up to the neighbors yesterday and he came home with his BH from work. The trailer was a tandem dully. Frame and cross members were exactly the same size, weight, and construction as my 14K. Best part was were both I beams came together in the front were cracked right across the top. I pointed this out to him and he just shrugged his shoulders as if to say it ain't mine....its the company's. And this tows that BH around every day some where. And we are worried about a 1ton truck with a 14K trailer?

No reason I know of why you legally couldn't have a trailer maker derate a trailer at the factory. Just would have to be done before it's titled. But then you would be stuck with that rating for the rest of the trailer's life. And going over that but still under what it normally would be rated for could be a problem if the guy with the scales showed up.

As for the guy with the cracked frame, just an accident waiting to happen. Hope no one gets injured/killed because of it. Even though it's a company trailer, the driver will be held liable. The lawyers would rip him to shreds in court and the ins company wouldn't cover it.

 

[powerstroke444e]

The age old debate, its one thing is if you are willing to take a chance with your life but a whole differant story when you take chance going down the road with other people on it. The laws are to keep stupid people from doing stupid things.
If you are driving semi to haul a lawnmower you still have to follow the same rules every other semi because its the law.
Contact your local DOT and ask them they will gladly tell how to keep it safe.