Toyota slammed for a change?

[RobertN]

One issue I have with hybrids, is the percieved lack of mileage. Now, some 20 years ago, my wife had a Suzuki Sprint Turbo. She got 50+mpg. And, if you got in to that turbo, it would pull away from the HO Mustangs and IROC Camaros. That was in '85.

Fast forward 20 years. Where's that mileage now? They make it sound magical, kind of like when the crew cab mini-truck was introduced here, even though it had been available in other countries for years.

In regards to hybrids, I find it a shame Dodge didn't further pursue that Contractors Special RAM diesel hybrid. That would have been awesome! Hybrid diesel elctric for economy. When you park it, you have a considerable capacity AC generator for tools ect.

 

[Jagmandave]

"They also note that while Toyota's overall fuel economy is the best in the industry, it is worse than it was 20 years ago, according to the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency."

This is a slam ? Of course their overall mileage is down. Look at all the V-8 Highlanders, Sequoias and Land Cruisers and Tundra's they've sold, especially in the last 5 years. I really doubt that any other manufacturer's rating is up overall, if they sell SUV's.

And have you all noticed how heavy all new cars and trucks are compared to 20 years ago? Plus the huge increase in HP and performance gains in the last 20 years? Do you remember how your 1985 cars and trucks ran, compared to today? Like crap, didn't they?

To me, self-serving "environmentalist" groups like this put out these opus to gain attention, not to shine the light of truth on something.....

"We don't enjoy playing the truth squad," Danielle Fugere, director of climate change at Bluewater, said. "But when the auto industry misleads the public, whether intentionally or not, someone's got to set the record straight."

Yeah, right.........

I noticed they "tested" the hybrids and claimed their economy numbers were worse than the EPA claimed, and only returned about the same mileage as the non- hybrids. but did they test the non-hybrids in exactly the same manner? I think this kind of article stinks - there's no scientific methodology, and the media picks this stuff up and prints it like it's the truth. And people buy into it.............

I hope you all are smarter than this.............

 

[inveresk]

Jagmandave, I don't see why environmentalists are any more self serving than you or me. Clearly, the figures Toyota are espousing on the consumption of the Prius are way off beam. I welcome the reviews I see on cars whether they're by environmentalists, car magazines, the Department of Transport or members of TBN. Maybe the methodology of each of them does leave something to be desired but without some sort of independent review we'd be left having to believe the manufacturers when its starkly evident they exaggerate the benefits of their products and minimise their faults. Now that's self serving.

 

[VA_Joe]

Even at three dollar a gallon gas, it is difficult to justify the heavy premium one pays for the hybrid (several thousand more, no discounts off of MSRP, and etc.) vs. a similiar "non-hybrid" vehicle. The only advantage in VA is that Hybrids can use the the HOV lanes without passengers. The problem is that these lanes are now getting so crowded at certain times in the morning due to the presence of the hybrids that carpooling is becoming less and less attractive to those of us who have been doing it for years (why go through the pain with such little gain).

 

[Bird]

</font><font color="blue" class="small">( Sprint Turbo )</font>

Robert, I test drove one of those when they were new. I was surprised at the power and acceleration, but wondered whether it would self destruct in a short time. /forums/images/graemlins/laugh.gif

 

[HGM]

As you may know, I disagree with the "green" agenda. They are most always mislead, or misleading...... However, there are some valid points, like anything with numbers attached, you can make them say anythinng you like. I can drive a gas powered Excursion and get better fuel economy than an escort, is it realistic? NO.... Part of tha validity to this is the issue with the hybrid operation, if you dont drive it right, you wont get the mileage..

Yes, considering the vehicles produced today, the overall average would naturally be down(insert your SUV slam here)..The reality is that the fuel economy rating on the window sticker is only a guide. It all depends on how you drive it and under what conditions. Mazda for example is selling the RX-8 with 18MPH(if I remember correctly)ratings, but if you drive it like you would like to drive it occasionally and at highway speeds rather than the 55MPH test speed, you get about 10MPG....

 

[Youare]

I have been to Europe on several occasions and have close friends in Germany, one of them just bought a Toyota pick up with a diesel engine. Back a little over a year ago I was looking to replace my Dodge 1500 4WD pick-up so I looked at what Toyota had to offer.

You could not even special order a Tacoma with the diesel engine. The only diesel offerings in this country were on full size pick ups most in the 3/4 ton range and the prices were beyond what I wanted to spend. I did purchase a Tacoma which I am happy with it on average it gives me 25 MPG. I had hoped the four cylinder would do a little better than that being that my friend in Germany with his diesel got much better milage.

After seeing and driving the cars and trucks available in Europe I aways wondered why you couldn't buy those models in this country. They have been paying high fuel prices by our standards for years and as a result have more fuel efficient cars than we do. Some of the cars I saw over there were bearing Ford and GM labels or were owned by them, why won't they market those models here?

How much weight do the oil companies have with the auto manufacturers and what is sold in this country? Even if I wanted to bring a car or truck over from Europe the DOT in this country would not let me drive it without a major undertaking.

I wonder who will be first to offer diesel engines in small trucks, Jeep seems to have a small lead at this point.

Randy

 

[inveresk]

You've hinted at something that I've wondered about for some time, Randy, whether there's some sort of collusion between the auto and oil industries to keep oil consumption high. This would also explain the need to change engine oil here almost twice as often as on the same car in Europe. I might be up a gum tree here but I can't think of another plausible explanation.

 

[cowboydoc]

<font color="red">Unfortunately, without the proper fuel, diesels would be ultimately banned due to the excessive emissions from the low quality fuels here in North America. </font>

That's not true. Ford, JD, Isuzu, and Cummins already have ultra low emissions. The Ford doesn't even smell like a diesel and produces less emissions than a V-10 and that is with the current fuel.

 

[slowrev]

There is a long history of collusion between auto and oil/tire industries. In CA back when autos were pretty much a new thing. Auto and tire/oil concens bought out the public street car systems to shut them down to get people to buy more autos and all that went with them. It has been a very quiet partnership over the years and has generally worked to the business advantage of all concerned. But not necessarially to the consumers advantage.
Ben