Tractor Definition

[Martian]

The specifications spell it all out clearly for most people to understand, I'm sorry that you don't.

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Did you read my post? You still haven't come up with a classification that everyone agrees upon that shows the Max is out of the SCUT market. I've looked at the specifications, more than once, so thanks for that recommendation.

 

[Don87]

:laughing: :laughing: :laughing: Did you read my post? You still haven't come up with a classification that everyone agrees upon that shows the Max is out of the SCUT market. I've looked at the specifications, more than once, so thanks for that recommendation.

You haven't read mine. And I went a little further.

I've forwarded all the pertinent information to NAAG.


Discussion over, time for action.

 

[LD1]

We aren't going to go through all this again. But my point is you still have not given a clear forefront definition of the classes of tractors that can be agreed on by everyone. Since there isn't one - it can't be wrong. This is what's been evading you, Don's tractor classification doesn't work for me and a lot of other people.

The specifications spell it all out clearly for most people to understand, I'm sorry that you don't.

Again, I dont get too worked up with "classifications". BECAUSE....there is nothing in stone. You can call it what you want, but just be mindful that what one person (or manufacture) considers a SCUT, an other person (or manufacture) may call a CUT.

SO...we have to do our due-diligence when shopping or comparing to make sure we are actually comparing apples to apples.

It is pretty clear that in kubotas mind, they draw the SCUT-CUT line between their B and BX models. IE: B=CUT and BX =SCUT in their eyes. Same with deere between the 10's and 20's. IE: 10=SCUT and 20= SCUT.

Mahindra thinks differently. And by them considering the max a SCUT, they are indeed changing the "game" of SCUTS. But by all fairness, if the Max is a SCUT, then so is the 20's and B's.

If ford decided to call their crown vic a "compact" car, and targeted the likes of "civics" and "corollas" in their comparisons and talk about how much more room and power "their compact" has......does that make any sense???? Just because other makes dont decide to follow suit and try to re-classify their line-up??

Just compair apples to apples. If you dont, you are only hurting yourself. You can call my L3400 a SCUT, or even a UT if you want, but that doesnt change how it performs or how it performs vs the competitions similar sized machines.

 

[Martian]

Again, I dont get too worked up with "classifications". BECAUSE....there is nothing in stone. You can call it what you want, but just be mindful that what one person (or manufacture) considers a SCUT, an other person (or manufacture) may call a CUT.

SO...we have to do our due-diligence when shopping or comparing to make sure we are actually comparing apples to apples.

It is pretty clear that in kubotas mind, they draw the SCUT-CUT line between their B and BX models. IE: B=CUT and BX =SCUT in their eyes. Same with deere between the 10's and 20's. IE: 10=SCUT and 20= SCUT.

Mahindra thinks differently. And by them considering the max a SCUT, they are indeed changing the "game" of SCUTS. But by all fairness, if the Max is a SCUT, then so is the 20's and B's.

If ford decided to call their crown vic a "compact" car, and targeted the likes of "civics" and "corollas" in their comparisons and talk about how much more room and power "their compact" has......does that make any sense???? Just because other makes dont decide to follow suit and try to re-classify their line-up??

Just compair apples to apples. If you dont, you are only hurting yourself. You can call my L3400 a SCUT, or even a UT if you want, but that doesnt change how it performs or how it performs vs the competitions similar sized machines.

I agree with you LD1! And that is exactly why I believe it really doesn't matter. I'm not stupid - I realize that Mahindra's Max 25 is bigger than the Deere 1 series, Kubota BX, MF GC, but that doesn't change how they perform. If you want to make the case that it's unethical that Mahindra is comparing a slightly larger machine, go ahead, but I'm not buying in. In the end we are comparing spec sheets and trying to make it real life - it doesn't work that way. We need to compare real life to real life, and there's a lot more to a tractor than a spec sheet.

 

[dfkrug]

I can't believe nobody has posted an actual definition from a dictionary yet...

Tractor: something that draws or pulls.

I was waiting for someone to do that.

Yes, a tractor is about using traction to do work. That includes the
lowliest riding lawnmower, which can pull a wagon. My tiny STX38
did that pretty well, actually. An ancient 70s era Crafstman riding mower
I owned actually had a rudimentary lifting hitch for a self-powered
rototiller. Also clearly a tractor, IMO.

What most here would agree on is that a ZTR riding mower is NOT a
tractor. It mows, but that's it. No trailers, hitches, etc, for traction
work. LD1 was first to mention the ZTR.

Does a tractor have to have a 3-pt or PTO? No way. No one here
would deny that a CASE 580 TLB is a tractor, right? My bro's
Freightliner is a tractor, for sure.

To further muddle this definiton, go look at a Bobcat Toolcat. That's
called a utility vehicle. Kinda like calling a Kubota RTV a golf cart.
The Toolcat has a 3-pt and comes with a FEL.

Who here thinks of a skidsteer as a tractor? They kind of have their
own category, but I would say loader work qualifies it as a tractor,
even it is no good at pulling things. Pushing is also traction work.

Food for thought.

 

[LD1]

If you want to make the case that it's unethical that Mahindra is comparing a slightly larger machine, go ahead, but I'm not buying in.

I have no problems with a company comparing its machine to a slightly smaller one if the other company doesnt make one the same size, and they are comming out with one that fits in-between two competitor models, sure we all expect them to pick on the smaller one right??

Thats not the issue, the issue is that deere and kubota BOTH make a tractor that spec almost IDENTICAL to the max, yet they choose to NOT compair to it. WHY???? Instead, they compare to the 10 series and BX, which is a bit more than "slightly" smaller IMO.

We seem to agree that people need to compair apples to apples right?

Well, if the Max is an apple, the kubota apple is the B2x20 and deere 2x20 series. And the BX and the 10-series.....well, they'd be like a grape in comparison

 

[NHmitch]

I really do not want to jump in the middle of this, because I think that people are taking the definitions personel and getting upset, but all I can say is, if it looks like duck, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. The whole CUT/SCUT/UT/whatever is a marketing scheme. These terms were not around years ago, and they have come out with them when these companies realized that their market was changing to the homeowner buyer more than the traditional farmer. They had to rework their sales pitches, and how they dealt with people. I have no doubt that my tractor is a small tractor, and it is a very capable tractor, but it is not in the same boat as a large AG tractor and was never meant to be. It was manufactured in Japan to work rice paddies, and tilling fields, and it is only 15hp, yet very powerful. The bottom line is when I see someone selling a tractor, I look at the HP, and see if it will fit my needs, and wether it has 4 wheel drive, and the PTO's that I need. I think that we are getting caught up in marketing tactics, and thats what the manufactures want, because they want you to go to them, because they always want to appear that you are getting a bigger, better machine, and they want you money. The truck dealerships have been doing this for years by adding words like Hemmi, Duramax, ect. Anyways, not to ramble on, but I think at the end of the day, we all have tractors, and they all have similar diesel engines, and they all are meant to work, so to me, it really does not matter what the tractor is called. If you look at the grey market tractor industry in the US, and you take a grey and compare it to an identical model with a different tag on it, the dealerships call it a gray, and will not touch it ad will not recognize it, and will not supply you with parts because of politics, and sales. The bottom line is a lot of your tractors are made by the same companies overseas, and rebranded, and to them, a tractor , is a tractor, is a tractor. So, please do not get upset over marketing techniques, and titles. That is not the point of the forum. We are here to help each other, and to have a place that is enjoyable to spend time on reading about what we all get enjoyment out of, out tractors. Anyways, I think that I have enjoyed looking at just about every tractor that I have seen on here, and to me, the titles do not matter..

 

[Don87]

I really do not want to jump in the middle of this, because I think that people are taking the definitions personel and getting upset, but all I can say is, if it looks like duck, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. The whole CUT/SCUT/UT/whatever is a marketing scheme. These terms were not around years ago, and they have come out with them when these companies realized that their market was changing to the homeowner buyer more than the traditional farmer. They had to rework their sales pitches, and how they dealt with people. I have no doubt that my tractor is a small tractor, and it is a very capable tractor, but it is not in the same boat as a large AG tractor and was never meant to be. It was manufactured in Japan to work rice paddies, and tilling fields, and it is only 15hp, yet very powerful. The bottom line is when I see someone selling a tractor, I look at the HP, and see if it will fit my needs, and wether it has 4 wheel drive, and the PTO's that I need. I think that we are getting caught up in marketing tactics, and thats what the manufactures want, because they want you to go to them, because they always want to appear that you are getting a bigger, better machine, and they want you money. The truck dealerships have been doing this for years by adding words like Hemmi, Duramax, ect. Anyways, not to ramble on, but I think at the end of the day, we all have tractors, and they all have similar diesel engines, and they all are meant to work, so to me, it really does not matter what the tractor is called. If you look at the grey market tractor industry in the US, and you take a grey and compare it to an identical model with a different tag on it, the dealerships call it a gray, and will not touch it ad will not recognize it, and will not supply you with parts because of politics, and sales. The bottom line is a lot of your tractors are made by the same companies overseas, and rebranded, and to them, a tractor , is a tractor, is a tractor. So, please do not get upset over marketing techniques, and titles. That is not the point of the forum. We are here to help each other, and to have a place that is enjoyable to spend time on reading about what we all get enjoyment out of, out tractors. Anyways, I think that I have enjoyed looking at just about every tractor that I have seen on here, and to me, the titles do not matter..

Part of what you are seeing is a 'carry-over' from another thread, that was dedicated to the Mahindra Max 25, and the Kubota BX 25.

Mahindra has decided to compare it's 'compact' tractor' to a 'sub-compact' tractor..........no comparison. Which is why I sent an e-mail to NAAG, to inform them of the false advertising.

 

[Martian]

I was waiting for someone to do that.

Yes, a tractor is about using traction to do work. That includes the
lowliest riding lawnmower, which can pull a wagon. My tiny STX38
did that pretty well, actually. An ancient 70s era Crafstman riding mower
I owned actually had a rudimentary lifting hitch for a self-powered
rototiller. Also clearly a tractor, IMO.

What most here would agree on is that a ZTR riding mower is NOT a
tractor. It mows, but that's it. No trailers, hitches, etc, for traction
work. LD1 was first to mention the ZTR.

Does a tractor have to have a 3-pt or PTO? No way. No one here
would deny that a CASE 580 TLB is a tractor, right? My bro's
Freightliner is a tractor, for sure.

To further muddle this definiton, go look at a Bobcat Toolcat. That's
called a utility vehicle. Kinda like calling a Kubota RTV a golf cart.
The Toolcat has a 3-pt and comes with a FEL.

Who here thinks of a skidsteer as a tractor? They kind of have their
own category, but I would say loader work qualifies it as a tractor,
even it is no good at pulling things. Pushing is also traction work.

Food for thought.

Excellent points.:thumbsup:

I have no problems with a company comparing its machine to a slightly smaller one if the other company doesnt make one the same size, and they are comming out with one that fits in-between two competitor models, sure we all expect them to pick on the smaller one right??

Thats not the issue, the issue is that deere and kubota BOTH make a tractor that spec almost IDENTICAL to the max, yet they choose to NOT compair to it. WHY???? Instead, they compare to the 10 series and BX, which is a bit more than "slightly" smaller IMO.

We seem to agree that people need to compair apples to apples right?

Well, if the Max is an apple, the kubota apple is the B2x20 and deere 2x20 series. And the BX and the 10-series.....well, they'd be like a grape in comparison

I know what your saying. I really do understand where your coming from, I just don't agree that such negativity is required to deal with it. If it makes you sleep better at night knowing that Mahindra is comparing their product to the B's of the world, make it happen.:thumbsup:

I really do not want to jump in the middle of this, because I think that people are taking the definitions personel and getting upset, but all I can say is, if it looks like duck, If it looks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck, then it probably is a duck. The whole CUT/SCUT/UT/whatever is a marketing scheme. These terms were not around years ago, and they have come out with them when these companies realized that their market was changing to the homeowner buyer more than the traditional farmer. They had to rework their sales pitches, and how they dealt with people. I have no doubt that my tractor is a small tractor, and it is a very capable tractor, but it is not in the same boat as a large AG tractor and was never meant to be. It was manufactured in Japan to work rice paddies, and tilling fields, and it is only 15hp, yet very powerful. The bottom line is when I see someone selling a tractor, I look at the HP, and see if it will fit my needs, and wether it has 4 wheel drive, and the PTO's that I need. I think that we are getting caught up in marketing tactics, and thats what the manufactures want, because they want you to go to them, because they always want to appear that you are getting a bigger, better machine, and they want you money. The truck dealerships have been doing this for years by adding words like Hemmi, Duramax, ect. Anyways, not to ramble on, but I think at the end of the day, we all have tractors, and they all have similar diesel engines, and they all are meant to work, so to me, it really does not matter what the tractor is called. If you look at the grey market tractor industry in the US, and you take a grey and compare it to an identical model with a different tag on it, the dealerships call it a gray, and will not touch it ad will not recognize it, and will not supply you with parts because of politics, and sales. The bottom line is a lot of your tractors are made by the same companies overseas, and rebranded, and to them, a tractor , is a tractor, is a tractor. So, please do not get upset over marketing techniques, and titles. That is not the point of the forum. We are here to help each other, and to have a place that is enjoyable to spend time on reading about what we all get enjoyment out of, out tractors. Anyways, I think that I have enjoyed looking at just about every tractor that I have seen on here, and to me, the titles do not matter..

Please go on, I'm ready to talk about something else.:thumbsup:

 

[CompactTractorFan]

My neighbor, who is a full time farmer, traveled to a show that had Bug Bud featured there. It's a custom made tractor with its own custom made implements. He said it can work one acre of ground in one minute.

That must have been a sight to behold...