Tractor for ditch digging ?

[bcarwell]

I'm a rookie still unfamiliar with implements.

I'm in Austin, TX. I will be burying some irrigation piping (maybe 3" - 4" diameter) and wiring in a portion of my 20 acres (sorry, don't know the depth of freeze line, so I guess you'll just have to guess how deep the trench needs to be; sorry).

Could somebody tell me if its feasible to use my Kubota 7500 (21HP) to dig the necessary ditches ? I will only be able to work intermittently so renting a ditch witch or other trencher is not feasible.

I know that there are rules of thumb like 10 HP per tooth of a plow, etc. But I have seen a stocky one "tooth" 3 point hitch tool that looks like it could go down pretty far, maybe after a few passes. I'm pretty patient, so if your suggested method required multiple passes, that's fine.

And I also realize there is a problem of getting the dirt OUT of the trench once its been broken open. But has somebody fashioned a TPH shovel or something to get the dirt out once the trench has been broken open.

Thanks for any help.

Farmer Bob

 

[Egon]

How many feet of trench are involved? What condition and type of soil?

 

[Jimbrown]

The tool you are talking about is a subsoiler it will do what you want but maybe not very well. Some people have riged up sytems that will lay pipe or wires as you dig. I have not lived in the Austin area for a while but I remember some of it was black gumbo clay and some pretty rockey. What you really need is a trencher but probably to expensive. Next best I think is a backhoe which could be used for lots of other things.

 

[Matt_W]

I'm a rookie still unfamiliar with implements.

I'm in Austin, TX. I will be burying some irrigation piping (maybe 3" - 4" diameter) and wiring in a portion of my 20 acres (sorry, don't know the depth of freeze line, so I guess you'll just have to guess how deep the trench needs to be; sorry).

Could somebody tell me if its feasible to use my Kubota 7500 (21HP) to dig the necessary ditches ? I will only be able to work intermittently so renting a ditch witch or other trencher is not feasible.

I know that there are rules of thumb like 10 HP per tooth of a plow, etc. But I have seen a stocky one "tooth" 3 point hitch tool that looks like it could go down pretty far, maybe after a few passes. I'm pretty patient, so if your suggested method required multiple passes, that's fine.

And I also realize there is a problem of getting the dirt OUT of the trench once its been broken open. But has somebody fashioned a TPH shovel or something to get the dirt out once the trench has been broken open.

Thanks for any help.

Farmer Bob

I used my B7610 to trench for a 1.5" PVC pipe with 220v running threw it for my septic pump. I already had purchased a back blade which tilted and then had to make sevaral passes but saved money over renting that way. The trench was only about 100 feet long and 1 foot deep.
Matt

 

[bcarwell]

How many feet of trench are involved? What condition and type of soil?

Best answer since I haven't dug yet is from watching the septic guy, who dug with a shovel to find the septic tank cover. He seemed to have no problem with a rebar probe or an ordinary dirt shovel getting down a foot or so fairly quickly (although what was on top may have been leftover soft dirt from the septic installation but I don't think so).

Only other estimate, probably no good, is assuming the dirt is like alot in Central Texas and the dirt on my 2 acres in the city 1/2 hour away. Easy digging down uncompacted soil a foot or two with occasional limestone rocks varying from about an inch to, more rarely, 4-5 inchers. I've been able to scrape pretty easily with boxblade but haven't tried lowering the teeth into it very deeply yet.

The soil appears to not be compacted much. It was for grazing a few cattle. Numerous fairly large live and pin oaks on it suggest it can't be too rocky if I am correct they don't like heavily rocky soil. And the dirt appears to be a medium to a little darker brown if that helps.

And I'm probably talking about maybe 300-400 feet. I'd rent a ditch witch if I was just doing that stretch, but I'll be doing it over the year and there will undoubtedly be maybe 5-10 of these 300 foot stretches as I expand from time to time. I'd like to not have to rely on renting.

 

[flusher]

I'm a rookie still unfamiliar with implements.

I'm in Austin, TX. I will be burying some irrigation piping (maybe 3" - 4" diameter) and wiring in a portion of my 20 acres (sorry, don't know the depth of freeze line, so I guess you'll just have to guess how deep the trench needs to be; sorry).

Could somebody tell me if its feasible to use my Kubota 7500 (21HP) to dig the necessary ditches ? I will only be able to work intermittently so renting a ditch witch or other trencher is not feasible.

I know that there are rules of thumb like 10 HP per tooth of a plow, etc. But I have seen a stocky one "tooth" 3 point hitch tool that looks like it could go down pretty far, maybe after a few passes. I'm pretty patient, so if your suggested method required multiple passes, that's fine.

And I also realize there is a problem of getting the dirt OUT of the trench once its been broken open. But has somebody fashioned a TPH shovel or something to get the dirt out once the trench has been broken open.

Thanks for any help.

Farmer Bob

I cut a trench for 4" drain pipe last year during the rainy season when the ground was pretty soft. Used my 21-hp Kubota B7510HST and a middle buster plow. No problem getting to about 10" depth, but needed to hand shovel a lot of loose dirt out of the trench.

 

[Licklog]

There was a thread earlier this year with a similar topic. A fella had combined a subsoiled with some PVC to both dig and lay wire. I did a quick search and came up with it....Below is the content........

Do a search for "Bob Skurka" or "subsoiler". There is a pic. Really a neat contraption.



Re: What kind of tool to lay landscape light wiring?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Better than a regular sub-soiler you need a fancy one to do the job right!

Go to the hardware store and buy a small piece of plastic pipe with a right angle bend, 2 large hose clamps and a new drill bit (about 5/8"). Drill 2 holes in the trailing edge of the subsoiler, one near the bottom, one about 10" up from the other hole.

String your 2 hose clamps through the newly drilled holes, and use them to clamp the pipe to the trailing edge of the subsoiler.

Now mount the subsoiler to your tractor, run some wire down through the pipe on the back and stake it off at the beginning of your wire run. Drive forward with subsoiler down and it will automatically bury your cable while digging the trench. Be sure to slowly feed the wire while you drive.

Modification costs =
$2.00 for the plastic pipe (muffler pipe works well too)
$0.99 for a 2 pack of hose clamps
$1.50 for a new drill bit (cheapo)

Cost of not having to manually bury cable
and telling your wife it was your idea so she thinks you are brilliant /forums/images/graemlins/wink.gif = Priceless!

 

[bcarwell]

I cut a trench for 4" drain pipe last year during the rainy season when the ground was pretty soft. Used my 21-hp Kubota B7510HST and a middle buster plow. No problem getting to about 10" depth, but needed to hand shovel a lot of loose dirt out of the trench.

Whatsa "middle buster plow" ? Gotta picture ? If not, can you describe ? Sounds like the best solution to me, as I think all I need is 10 inches. I might even be able to figure out some contraption for getting the loose dirt out.

Thanks for replying !

Farmer Bob

 

[RickS]

Bob, go to tractorsupplyco.com or kingkutter.com and look for "middle buster".

FYI, I live near Temple and the frost line here is about 3".

 

[npaden]

The subsoiler will dig a little deeper than the middlebuster. You can switch out the blade on it to be whatever width you want. I think you want to get it as deep as possible for the electric line.

Here's a subsoiler:

And here's a middlebuster:

The only difference is the point and the subsoiler is about 5 or 6 inches longer. They should run about $150 or so for the King Kutter brand ones.

 

[hz293]

In looking at the pictures of a subsoiler and middlebuster, it brought up a question in my mind. Is there any reason that you could not make a middlebuster by replacing a box blade ripper with a longer shank and a ripper tip to get down deeper?

Harris

 

[bcarwell]

In looking at the pictures of a subsoiler and middlebuster, it brought up a question in my mind. Is there any reason that you could not make a middlebuster by replacing a box blade ripper with a longer shank and a ripper tip to get down deeper?

Harris

Harris,
Hmmm. I've got a box blade with rippers and am taking a welding class in a few weeks. Sure seems to me all you'd have to do is make a longer ripper and insert it in the pre-existing slot of your box blade and save the money of the redundant TPH. Maybe that'll be my first welding project.

Bob

 

[bcarwell]

Thanks to all who replied. I understand now. And the auto wire laying contraption is really nifty.

One thing did seem odd to me though. Particularly with the subsoiler (although from the pictures it seemed to be true of the potato digger as well) it seemed a universal problem was the tool would certainly dig as intended but wouldn't get the dirt out of the hole.

Sure seems like there is an opportunity for some creative home brewing here then. I can't imagine why one (me, maybe after the welding course I'm about to take) could not fashion some sort of tool dragged behind the subsoiler whose sole function was to get the dirt <out> of the hole.

Anybody know of such a thing ?

Farmer Bob

 

[patrick_g]

The box blade may likely not be engineered to take the forces generated buy a way over standard length tooth. Expensive to mess up the box blade to avoid buying a subsoiler. I have both the subsoiler and middle buster and they are the same implement with different blades bolted on. I bought the one (don't recall which) and just bought the other blade so in a few minutes I can swap from one to the other. I have toyed with an idea but not acted on it. That is to use the frame/3PH part and build my own blade. It would be designed to dig a trench . . .A N D . . . remove most or all of the loosened soil. I have mused over various configurations, including but not limited to:

1. a rectangular chute with a twist on the back side to deliver a continuous chip (forgive wood working term, I don't know what to call the dirt coming out) to the top of and to one side of the ditch.

2. I have considered just fabricating an accessory to go with the subsoiler blade as their blade is hardened and I would only have to work with mild steel. Basically a three sided chute with a twist in it to let the removed dirt be forced up and to one side above the surface.

I don't see why this would not work BUT I also don't see why if it is so easy they aren't being marketed by King Kutter or whoever. Likewise the cable layer/ tubing layer. If they are so easy to build then why aren't there a few competing brands out there of already built ones? One day, I'll just have to build some of these things to find out.

patrick_g

 

[texasjohn]

bcarwell, Austin soil is highly variable... from Houston Black Clay which is multiple feet deep and grows cotton to shallow calcareous soils that have rocks on the surface and really big rocks just under the surface. What you will be able to do all depends on the soil you are digging in. You say you are intrested in a 3 to 4 inch irrigation line... that's a pretty big line... I hope you have access to an extremely large and cheap source of water, otherwise there is no need to put in such a large line. A smaller line, say 1.5 inches or smaller can be pulled by the subsoiler (assumig you don't hit rocks) at one time for quite a ways when the soil moisture is right (not too wet or too dry). This avoids the need for removing soil from the ditch. As far as a freeze line... if you get the water line 6 inches deep, it won't freeze. There can be other reasons for digging it deeper, but that is clearly sufficient to avoid freezing in Austin. PM me or call to discuss how I have put in water and electric lines in the Jarrell area.

 

[DavidPerry]

The sub soiler is not supposed to remove the dirt from the narrow trench you cut. Think of a zipper. Pull it along to open a 2" trench for a very short time just long enough to lay conduit, pipe or wire in the ground. Then it closes back up and you barely notice you did anything.