Buying Advice Tractor for homestead / land maintenance

[jeff9366]

I think it was either 66 or 72". It was a verbal estimate. I looked at Everything Attachments and their 66" XTreme Duty Box Blade, 490 lbs, looks like a good deal for $893.

For the work you intend your Box Blade should weigh at least eighty pounds per foot of width. 490/5.5 = 89 pounds per foot of width.

I recommend you not finalize Box Blade order until the tractor is home. You want Box Blade to be 12" (+/-) wider than your tire width (3" to 6" on each side) and you will not know tire width for sure until tractor is with you.

I have several ETA implements. Very sturdy and satisfactory, with the exception of paint. I think ETA is so busy they ship before paint cures. (ETA will paint your implements Kioti orange for a modest additional charge. ETA'a Land Shark implements are orange, so orange paint is relatively simple for ETA. )

I do not have a grapple form ETA but ETA grapples are reviewed well here by experienced tractor people.

Dual lid grapples hold material in bucket more securely than single lid grapples. Unquestionably.
However, I practice the KISS PRINCIPLE (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and if i were shopping grapples I would consider a single lid because of simplicity.

I use SSQA Pallet Forks rather than a grapple, partly on the KISS PRINCIPLE. Works for me.
My Pallet Forks are branded Construction Attachments, sold by ETA. Excellent build.

 

[Diggin It]

Don't get caught up in the koolaid crowd.

There are other colors than orange. Blue (New Holland, LS) is good. Red (Massey, TYM, Yanmar, Branson) is good.

There are other places to buy things than EA and at better prices from what I've seen.

 

[fried1765]

Beautiful property and welcome to the forum!

Most folks on here will recommend hiring and/or renting construction equipment to perform construction tasks and then buying a tractor to maintain the property once all the heavy work is done. Digging foundations and culverts, deforesting, etc is heavy work that compact tractors really aren稚 designed to do and getting the right heavy equipment in there will knock it out in short order.

That said, you値l definitely still need a tractor. For 40 acres I壇 recommend you shop for a tractor that weighs 3500lbs minimum (before weight of loader and ballast) and 35-55 horsepower. Decide what implements you need to perform the work first, and then choose a tractor capable of powering those implements. Weight is your friend.

Exactly ^^^^^ what he said!

 

[fried1765]

For the work you intend your Box Blade should weigh at least eighty pounds per foot of width. 490/5.5 = 89 pounds per foot of width.

I recommend you not finalize Box Blade order until the tractor is home. You want Box Blade to be 12" (+/-) wider than your tire width (4" to 6" on each side) and you will not know tire width for sure until tractor is with you.

I have several ETA implements. Very sturdy and satisfactory, with the exception of paint. I think they are so busy they sometimes ship before paint is entirely cured. I do not have a grapple form ETA but ETA grapples are reviewed well here.

Dual lid grapples hold material in bucket more securely than single lid grapples. Unquestionably.
However, I practice the KISS PRINCIPLE (Keep It Simple, Stupid) and if i were shopping grapples I would consider a single lid because of simplicity.

I use SSQA Pallet Forks rather than a grapple, partly on the KISS PRINCIPLE. Works for me.
My Pallet Forks are branded Construction Attachments, sold by ETA.

Ditto on the EA paint comment!
EA equipment design/fabrication seems to be consistently excellent.
EA equipment paint....not so much!

 

[fried1765]

Hi Everyone,

My husband and I would like to ask for some help in choosing a tractor. We are going to a Kioti and a Kubota dealer this weekend to look at open air tractors (hubby doesn't want a cab). We have almost 40 acres that was recently paid off and we would like to build our home and a barn on it. About 1/2 the land is 2-3" saplings with some trees about 5-6" wide.

Initially, we would like to use the tractor to clear about an acre of trees, add fill dirt to raise up the driveway, and add about a 15' culvert (maybe a 12" pipe would work). We were quoted $4k to clear (mulch) the 1.25 acres of trees and $7k to level the driveway and install the culvert. Maybe use it to excavate our foundation if it could do it (crawlspace). We would rather put that money towards a tractor and put in a few months of hard work to save this money.

Afterwards, the tractor would be used to bush hog a few trails around the house, maintain a 1/4 gravel mile driveway, and transform a 2 acre low area near a creak into a garden / orchard, and install some fencing. We plan on a few chickens, goats, small farm and other land maintenance.

Would we be able to do all of this with a tractor? What size tractor would you recommend? Are there any implements besides a bush hog, front end loader and maybe a backhoe? We'll probably need an auger later. We've seen forestry mulcher take down trees, but there's not much information about using it on a tractor.

Thank you!

Proceed slowly with selections.
There is a lot to learn, before making firm (expensive) decisions.

 

[jeff9366]

@3gunr,
1) I agree that the Kioti price is a little high. Especially when I compare it to the package deals at Larry Stovesand in Tennessee. We'll look at the Kubotas and see what he likes better. I think it will be the Kioti and we can hopefully negotiate that price down.

@PEJ5,
2) The dealer mentioned filling the tires with a liquid, not water, but I'm not sure how much weight that would add.


3) We have an F-150 and I just looked up the tow capacity and it's about 7,500, which is close. We would only be towing it about 10 miles, so it shouldn't be an issue...hopefully.

1) PACKAGE PRICE Beware. Another MessicK's VIDEO that is consistent with the experience of many disappointed PACKAGE buyers here.
You don't know what you don't know.

If you do not buy implements from the Kioti dealer do not squeeze him for every nickel on the tractor. The dealer has to make a living too. In my opinion, you are opening with HIGH VALUE in the Kioti brand which merits consideration.

VIDEO: Shady Internet Tractor Package "deals" - YouTube


2) TIRE BALLAST Approximately 600 to 700 pounds in two rear tires. R4/industrial tires, probably your choice, hold more liquid than R1/ag tires.

When buying a tractor: Tractor weight first. Tractor horsepower second. Rear ballast/counterbalance third. (Usually)

The 490 pound ETA Box Blade will make primo counterbalance, combined with "loaded" rear tires, to max FEL lifts.

LINK: Comparing Types of Liquid Tire Ballast | OrangeTractorTalks


3) TRAILER Pulling a tractor laden trailer without separate trailer brakes is extremely wearing on truck brakes.
May be cheaper in the short run and long run to have dealer transport your tractor as necessary with his HD truck, HD trailer, ample tie downs, experienced driver and liability insurance. I have my six mile distant Kubota dealer make my tractor moves for $2 per mile from dealer to my destination, plus a tie down fee. $2 per mile round trip.

Our Kioti dealer is only 8 miles away and was really friendly and informative. They can also service the tractor.

How nice.

I deliver a dozen doughnuts to my Kubota dealer on National Doughnut Day, the first Friday in June.

 

[jeff9366]

While I think of it: Be sure delivery of your tractor is included in final price.

Doc fees gambit make me suspicious dealer might want to charge for delivery after deal is finalized.

 

[ericm979]

EA equipment paint....not so much!

I can't speak to their other implements but the paint on my grapple is holding up much better than the paint on my Gearmore box blade even though I have used it more.

I got a dual lid on the theory that it would hold uneven items better than a single lid. But be aware that because of the way hydraulics work, often one lid will move and then the other. The cylinder that has less force opposing it moves first. The dual lid having two cylinders instead of one will open and close faster. I figured that'd be an advantage with a 3rd function which is only on or off. A diverter lets you 'feather' the valve to move the cylinders slowly. I have mine connected to a SCV (rear remote) and find that I never need to feather the valve... on and off is fine with me.

 

[woolyAcres]

I've have the EA Wicked Root grapple. In my opinion it has a serious flaw. The cylinder on the unit I have does not extend far enough to allow the lid to close down tight to the bottom tines. The way the 2 pieces are machined (lid and lower teeth), it sure looks like they are meant to contact one another/close all the way. It's just that the cylinder they shipped it with is about 1/2' too short, leaving a 5" gap between the jaws when closed all the way. It's not always a problem, like large logs or big loads of intertwined brush, but in some circumstances it's really a pain, like anytime I'm trying to grab a load of small items that are well organized or even a single small (<5" item). It won't pinch down and can't be grabbed by the grapple.

Paint on mine is fine but I'd trade a poor paint job for better design anytime.

I'd also consider looking at other brands/options.

Perhaps this has been fixed on newer models.

 

[jeff9366]

I have the EA Wicked Root grapple. The cylinder they shipped with it is 1/2' too short, leaving a 5" gap between the jaws when closed.

Paint on mine is fine. I'd trade a poor paint job for better design.

I'd also consider looking at other brands/options.

Here is e-mail contact for Travis Templeton at everytfhingattachments.com

I suggest communicating your criticism direct to Travis.

travis@everythingattachments.com

 

[woolyAcres]

Here is e-mail contact for Travis Templeton at everytfhingattachments.com

I suggest communicating your criticism direct to Travis.

travis@everythingattachments.com

I've taken you up on your suggestion. Email sent. Perhaps it will help the next guy down the line. I mostly just work around it now or avoid using it in the fashion or get off the tractor and throw stuff back into the grapple by hand.

 

[PEJ5]

I hope you are not suffering from information overload. The dealer will be impressed with the detailed questions you will ask!! Yes, there are other good brands to compare, but I am liking my new-to-me Kíoti and the attention to detail. Even the various drain plugs on the black engine, transmission and front drive axle are painted orange for newbies like me to easily find.

I have an older DK5010 and you are looking at an SE (bells and whistles) model. Mine has quick attach on the loader/bucket so I expect your will as well.

My R4 Industrial tires (14.9-24) are the same size as listed in the specs on the model you are looking at... if you select industrial. Mine took 49 US gallons per wheel to the valve stem at 12 O'clock. I used RV antifreeze (-50deg Celcius) and estimate the added weight to be 425 pounds per tire.

The previous owner of my tractor had the wheel centers reversed so the tractor has a wider stance. You should ask the dealer to widen yours (no matter the brand) to almost as wide as the bucket for added stability.

The truck should be okay for that short a distance as long as you have a brake controller in the truck in working order and preferably a weight distribution hitch. My cousin helped transport mine and wow, it is a load! Some trailers only have dual 3500 pound capacity axles so 7000 max minus the weight of the trailer steel may leave you with a net carrying capacity of 6000 pounds. Read/photograph the trailer label yourself so you can study the max capacity before committing to that trailer model - do not count of the salesman to consider these details. He is thinking sub 5000 pound tractor - not.

Happy shopping folks.

 

[Tractorable]

A dual axle trailer weighs in the neighborhood of 2000-2500lbs so with 3500lb axles it’d only have a payload or 4500-5000lbs.

If the OP’s property is only 10 miles away from the house they’re currently residing in then may be able to just drive the tractor there, might take 45 minutes.

 

[Binx]

I have figured out the quotes!!!

We drove an hour to the Kubota dealer today. We found a used MX5800 4WD HST with a front-end loader and bucket with 200 hours. My husband LOVED the size and stance of the tractor. The salesperson/dealer said the tractor was an Ag rental (used to haul a peach cart???) and so it still qualified for a full warranty and 0% financing. The price was $29,500 before tax. Dealer said we would save $1500 over new, which didn't seem like that great a deal. The people in the store didn't seem that friendly. No smiles, no interaction, no feeling that the dealer cared or really wanted our business. He was knowledgeable, but there was no rapport like with the Kioti dealer. BTW, Why is the fuel tank fill on top of the hood of an MX?!? That's at least 5 feet off the ground. Trying to balance a 5 gallon can of diesel and not spill it would be extremely difficult.

Since we were out, we stopped by the same Kioti dealer on our way back home and asked to see an NX to make a more realistic comparison.
The dealer quoted us:
NX5010H HST 4WD w/KL6010 Loader and 72" QA bucket and 3rd function control $33,124 out the door.
NX5510H HST 4WD with same equipment $35,053 out the door.

Dealer said he could possibly toss in the loaded tires and would give us the USB port for my hubby to use with his tunes. No grapple in this quote as we're looking at the EA now.

What's amazing is that when we asked the Kioti dealer his opinion about the difference between the NX5010 and NX5510 and he asked what tools we would be using. He said that the NX5010 would be sufficient, saving us $1800. That's pretty cool.

It looks we're getting a bush hog, grapple, box blade and loader/bucket.

Don't get caught up in the koolaid crowd.
There are other colors than orange. Blue (New Holland, LS) is good. Red (Massey, TYM, Yanmar, Branson) is good.

Hubby doesn't want JD because of price and proprietary attachments. NH, LS, Massey and Branson are about an hour away. Kioti is about 15 minutes away and we were willing to make the hour drive for Kubota.

2) TIRE BALLAST Approximately 600 to 700 pounds in two rear tires. R4/industrial tires, probably your choice, hold more liquid than R1/ag tires.

When buying a tractor: Tractor weight first. Tractor horsepower second. Rear ballast/counterbalance third. (Usually)

The Kioti dealer is open to adding the liquid ballast as part of the deal. Good idea on the donuts.

I hope you are not suffering from information overload. The dealer will be impressed with the detailed questions you will ask!! Yes, there are other good brands to compare, but I am liking my new-to-me K?ti and the attention to detail. Even the various drain plugs on the black engine, transmission and front drive axle are painted orange for newbies like me to easily find.

I have an older DK5010 and you are looking at an SE (bells and whistles) model. Mine has quick attach on the loader/bucket so I expect your will as well.

My R4 Industrial tires (14.9-24) are the same size as listed in the specs on the model you are looking at... if you select industrial. Mine took 49 US gallons per wheel to the valve stem at 12 O'clock. I used RV antifreeze (-50deg Celcius) and estimate the added weight to be 425 pounds per tire.

The previous owner of my tractor had the wheel centers reversed so the tractor has a wider stance. You should ask the dealer to widen yours (no matter the brand) to almost as wide as the bucket for added stability.

You guys are giving us quite a bit of information, but every bit of it is helpful. We're now getting the loaded tires when we didn't think it was needed. We did ask about flipping the tires around, so I think the dealer was impressed with that...at least I'd like to think so. :laughing:

 

[jeff9366]

Why is the fuel tank fill on top of the hood of an MX?!? That's at least 5 feet off the ground. Trying to balance a 5 gallon can of diesel and not spill it would be extremely difficult.

Top fill dates from about 1939. With traditional top fill an MX will fit into a residential garage with an 87" header if the ROPS is folded.

(MX series same weight as Grand L series.)

The Kubota Grand Ls, with side fill, allow the fuel dispensing person to have both feet on the ground. One reason, at age 69, I bought a Grand L3560. However, having the fuel tank low increases the height of the tractor and ROPS.

None of the Grand Ls will fit into a residential garage with an unaltered ROPS folded. I had the local quality welding shop section 4" out of the ROPS immediately after delivery, so L3560 will fit in my garage with an 87" header. January 2013 cost: $200.

Tractor ROPS keep getting taller to accommodate aftermarket Backhoes. As Backhoes are rarely purchased in Asia, where much ag land has been farmed for 700 years, I speculate Grand L ROPS are lower there.

 

[YLee Kioti]

When looking at the NX5010 consider the PTO HP and what you may be using in the future.
Sounds like you got a handle on it though.

I found this for you in case you have not had time to get to it.
This is the link to the S.C. Ag Exempt form. https://www.southeastag.com/PDF/South_Carolina.pdf

When you get the approved form, I cut mine out and had it laminated so when ever I go to a CoOp they make a copy of it and bam done deal.
You will save a LOT on sales taxes, enough to buy one implement!, I did....lol...
Please consider all implements you will need and look at Craig List, and Farm auction sites instead of buying 'new' for all you needs. This will save you quite a bit in the long run.
You will enjoy two key features of the NX.
The linked pedal so when activated it drives like a car step on it and go. This will ave fuel when traveling back and forth from home to work area.
The other is the no stall feature. I set rpm to 1500 for the hydraulic pump and engage a pile of dirt and load up bucket and engine never even grunts and just loads up.
The cruise control is nice if you'll be cutting many acres of open pasture in the future. Set it and enjoy.

Good luck you've got lots of excellent advice, best I ever seen to date.
And nice job of helping you hubby with all the upfront leg work, it's quite the leap you all are taking.
Wishing yah'll the best!

 

[Tractorable]

If you like the MX5800 check out a Grand L4060/4760....same chassis except the HST+ transmission is so much nicer.

Plus, on the Grand L fuel is filled down low.

 

[finn1]

Loaded tires will certainly add weight to the tractor, but I find that my ck4010se rides pretty bad when running down the county road between my house and shop.

Not sure if there is a satisfactory solution, but I do know that liquid aren’t compressible, so they sort of defeat the purpose of rubber tires on a tractor with no suspension, other than the seat.

Hopefully the NX has a better seat suspension than the CK cab tractor has.

 

[jeff9366]

In late 2012 when I last considered a new tractor, settling on a Kubota L3560, I considered a cab. My Kubota dealer here in flat Florida discouraged combination of a cab and "loaded" rear tires for the modestly powered L3560. He felt the weight of the cab, about 600 pounds, applied about as much weight to the rear tires as "loading" the rear tires and it should be cab or "loaded" rear tires, not both.

I am not sure dealer would have made this recommendation if the L3560 had 50-horsepower or 60-horsepower, rather than 37-horsepower. In the end decided to go open station, rather than cab, as my two previous tractors and air inflated tires. I always carry Three Point Hitch counterbalance, usually around 600 pounds, except when working on residential lawns, which would involve tree trimming.

It it is too hot, too humid or raining, I simply leave the tractor in the garage. I am retired. There is always tomorrow.

Loaded tires can be 50% to 75% full, leaving air for compressibility. There have been reports from operators that drive tractors on public roads, presumably over 15-mph, the the drop of fluid from decreasing centrifical force when slowing from speed can be unsettling the first few times it occurs.

Iron wheel weights, in lieu of liquid, are another option. No slosh with iron wheel weights.

 

[Diggin It]

BTW, Why is the fuel tank fill on top of the hood of an MX?!? That's at least 5 feet off the ground. Trying to balance a 5 gallon can of diesel and not spill it would be extremely difficult.

People with that size machine around here have 300+ gallons of fuel delivered to on site tanks with electric pumps and hoses to fill their machines. Other people buy trailer or truck mounted tanks with pumps and hoses. They don't generally use 5 gallon cans.

Since we were out, we stopped by the same Kioti dealer on our way back home and asked to see an NX to make a more realistic comparison.
The dealer quoted us:
NX5010H HST 4WD w/KL6010 Loader and 72" QA bucket and 3rd function control $33,124 out the door.
NX5510H HST 4WD with same equipment $35,053 out the door.

Hubby doesn't want JD because of price and proprietary attachments. NH, LS, Massey and Branson are about an hour away. Kioti is about 15 minutes away and we were willing to make the hour drive for Kubota.

Driving distance is a matter of perspective. For many of us, groceries are an hour away. We WISH our dealer was 'only' an hour away. But again, why does the dealer need to be close? In most cases, once you take delivery, your machines should never have to see the dealer again.

On pricing, I'm seeing the LS XR4150 with 72" FEL listed for under $30K and the specs appear to be comparable to or in some cases, better than the NX5010.

XR415�H-5�HP | LS Tractor

TractorData.com Kioti NX5�1� tractor information