Rhino35
Silver Member
- Joined
- May 28, 2013
- Messages
- 147
- Location
- Independence, KY
- Tractor
- 2013 Kioti DK 40 SE Hydro and two Cub Cadet riding lawn mowers
Hey All,
I found this an informative, and timely, thread - thanks to all the posters who discussed possible causes of overheating.
I have a 2013 Kioti DKSE40H (Hydrostatic) with FEL and a Tarter brand 6 Bush Hog, which I bought new. I just turned 400 hours, which is when it is due for a big service. This is the 41 HP, four cylinder Daedong engine. I have changed the oil and filter every 50 hours (overkill, but I only put 50 or less hours on it each year). My tires are "loaded" with RimGuard (beet juice derivative as most know). I think my Kioti tractor, which is said to have a heavy iron frame, weighs somewhere around 6,300 lbs with all this stuff on it. I like the bucket on it to balance the bush hog on my steep hills and keep my CG low.
It's November, I'm in Northern Kentucky, and I bush hog every fall about 9 acres. I just finished...and as in every prior fall the overheating is frustrating and slows the work. Fall is the best time to do it because the ground is dry - in winter and spring when the ground is wetter it is downright hazardous due to the potential to slide the tractor - I have industrial tires because I must drive the tractor on my lawn from time to time. What's bad about fall is the tall meadow grasses and saplings - a variety of vegetation has grown up to 4-5 feet high over each summer. Also the growth is dry, with seeds and a lot of it has very fluffy cotton-like material - which argues for a spring hogging before new growth but I can't do it.
In this thread I've read that some of you have tractors that blow off vegetative debris (pun intended) even when its blocking your hood air inlets and the screens in front of your radiator cores. No overheating. Not me. I wish! From the first time I bush hogged if that screen in front of the radiator gets coated the temperature starts to rise. I've never let it get above the highest white line on the gauge and into the red, but I'm pretty sure if I didn't stop mowing to address it it would. What I have to do is carry around in the FEL bucket an electric leaf blower. Every 10-15 minutes, sometimes less (!), I have to stop the tractor, open the hood and blow it all out. When it's really misbehaving I have to shut off the engine so I can direct some leaf blower airflow forward through the radiator (not fight the fan). I do see a fine dust expelled. This brings temps back into the narrow "all good" range - until I bush hog another 10 minutes. It does this with outside air temperatures below 75 degrees. This is with running the tractor in LOW range and 4 four wheel drive selected (need it), running right at 2,500 engine RPM for the 540 PTO to be correct, and not going very fast so the bush hog can cut and mulch. When I go up hill I have to add throttle, when going downhill ****** throttle (it is a lever on the side of the steering wheel). A lot of the time I'll engage a magnet to hold the hydrostatic pedal at the right speed.
I've talked to my dealership over the years and they told me their "fix" for this fairly common problem in our hill country is to blow out the radiator fins. I have done that with a 150 psi compressor and handy pistol grip tool. I like the long arm I saw in this thread with the 90 degree nozzle - I will get one of those for sure. When I do blow out with compressed air I get lots of fine dust out of the fins. An hour later it is overheating again. I am really surprised that my tractor hasn't been engineered with an over-engineered cooling system (if there isn't anything wrong with it otherwise). Of course tractor hood's air inlets will get clogged mowing or harvesting crops. Of course the screen in front will likely get clogged. Some of you have tractors that don't overheat when this happens. Mine overheats, really, with the least clogging and it shouldn't. I could have gotten a 45 HP version of the same tractor and wish I had - I can tell my tractor is right at the limit of its ability going uphill. By this I mean it won't hold 2,500 RPM with almost wide open throttle if I try and push the "go forward" pedal faster than the proper speed I want to bush hog at - it starts to bog down.
So...is it the thermostat not fully opening? How interesting that people here with years of tractor and engine maintenance disagree about having one at all. My first instinct was to remove the thermostat. I don't need to rush warming up my tractor. My tractor lives in a heated garage that I let get only as cold as 40F in winter. I really don't even run the tractor in winter. although there is a scenario where I might need to move snow with the bucket. If the purpose of a thermostat is to get a diesel engine up to operating temperature quickly in winter, and maintain it there in winter, then maybe if mine is faulty replacing it, or just taking it out, would help resolve my chronic, too-easily overheating problem. If the engine actually needs restricted coolant flow via a partially closed thermometer to allow time for radiator heat exchange, or there is that Y fork in the coolant road inside the engine that not enough restriction to the radiator will route too hot coolant right back towards the engine, then I could damage the engine even testing it. My engine temperature gauge might say things are dandy, but that pickoff is at the radiator not internal to the engine (although I'm not sure where it is read). I don't doubt the posters who say don't run without a thermostat, but...I sure want to!
Here's the troubleshooting notes I took from this thread;
Always blow all the dirt out of the radiator before using water or you'll just make mud you may have trouble getting out. Ummm, guilty as charged. I washed out the radiator my first year and probably did create some cement-like crud. When advised about this being a bad idea in year three of ownership I sprayed foaming brake cleaning fluid into the radiator (still on the tractor, imperfect application, but I'm not a very competent or confident mechanic), let it sit about 20 minutes, then rinsed it out. Didn't help much. Now I only blow it out with air.
Check air flow direction through the radiator. Is fan pulling or pushing? Should be pulling.
Oil level slightly over the full line - could cause the crank to hit the oil and foam it up. The poster mentioning this drained less than 8 oz out which lowered the level to about the 80% mark and it totally resolved The crank hitting the oil in the bottom of the engine is what was causing the engine to work harder, use more fuel and run hotter.
I need to get an infrared thermometer to look at the radiator and, to the extent possible, my hydrostatic transmission's oil cooler, which is in front of the radiator. The cooling air for the engine is drawn through the oil cooler first, so if the oil is overheated, the radiator air is going to be hotter than normal too. With Covid 19 I looked at these infrared thermometers and they aren't that expensive. With an infrared thermometer I should see exactly at what temperature the thermostat opens and closes. I can block and unblock the radiator with a plastic garbage bag (or cardboard, methinks) to see thermometer behavior. There should be about a 30F difference between the upper and lower radiator hoses.
Check for possible oil cooler installed wrong, such as both inlet and outlet facing down, or the inlet on top and the outlet on bottom. The oil may not be filling the cooler and bypassing some of the cooler's ability to cool.
A partially open thermostat recirculates coolant through the block, not the radiator. Replace thermostat with a restrictor?
Run some strong radiator/block cleaner in it? The coolant after 6 years and only 400 hours - looks green and the overflow bottle is at half level. One poster said, "Make sure the coolant ratio is dead on - it was about 65% glycol and the rest water, instead of 50/50 like they recommend." He said when the mix was right his overheating problem abated.
Air intake restriction will cause overheating. Check air filter. My neighbor mentioned this a few year ago. I put a new air filter in - still overheats the same. I do blow it out now when blowing out the radiator.
Look at the water pump for signs of corrosion or breakage of fins? This is getting into the engine further than I can get at home. I could have the dealership do this at the 400 hour service, and replace or remove the thermostat, but just the regular service already costs about $900.
Are the bush hog blades sharp? Are the blades correctly installed? Are there any defects (bearings, etc,,..) in the bush hog? I just checked to ensure the bush hog gear box was properly filled with fluid. It was. Maybe there is something not great about the size - it's causing too much load on the tractor. Maybe I need a 5 foot hog? Maybe my hills and the 6 foot hog, and the weight, are just to much for my tractor? If so...shame on Kioti for under-engineering their cooling system. Even carefully and slowly mowing cross hill - not much up and down or gentle up and down - it still overheats.
Replace original single row radiator with a 2 row radiator meant for AC and tranny cooling. Poster said, "Now temp stays at the very low end of the normal operating range. New radiator was a direct bolt up replacement. Everything fit perfectly. Best $80 bucks I ever spent."
Get a mobile tractor mechanic, or an experienced diesel mechanic, to my property to diagnose and repair your overheating tractor. I kind of like this idea. My dealership charges a lot, and charged $150 to fetch and bring back my tractor for its $900 50 hour new tractor full service. Over a grand to change hydraulic fluid, oil, and a couple of filters, and look it over is a lot!
So that's the list I got from this great thread - thanks again to all posters. I'm going to run through and check what I can tomorrow.
What I've done for years is when my engine starts to complain and get hot, even after cleaning off the visible debris with the leaf blower, and after blowing the radiator out with compressed air, is mow with the hood raised. When I do this the interval between stopping is lengthened, but it still overheats. This "hood up" fashion statement is not helping me make progress towards my coveted "Country Man Third Class Certification", the first step up from "Country Man Conehead", and, just as some of you will be thinking, and my supportive farm neighbors no doubt think, "Why hasn't that city-slicker just fixed his overheating problem once and for all?"
Any further suggestions would be welcomed. It may just be...as one poster pointed out...that I'm asking too much of 41 HP Wile E. Kioti in the first place. My hills are steep, the brush is high, the clogging is a fact of life. But I sure hope not.
Best,
Rhino
I found this an informative, and timely, thread - thanks to all the posters who discussed possible causes of overheating.
I have a 2013 Kioti DKSE40H (Hydrostatic) with FEL and a Tarter brand 6 Bush Hog, which I bought new. I just turned 400 hours, which is when it is due for a big service. This is the 41 HP, four cylinder Daedong engine. I have changed the oil and filter every 50 hours (overkill, but I only put 50 or less hours on it each year). My tires are "loaded" with RimGuard (beet juice derivative as most know). I think my Kioti tractor, which is said to have a heavy iron frame, weighs somewhere around 6,300 lbs with all this stuff on it. I like the bucket on it to balance the bush hog on my steep hills and keep my CG low.
It's November, I'm in Northern Kentucky, and I bush hog every fall about 9 acres. I just finished...and as in every prior fall the overheating is frustrating and slows the work. Fall is the best time to do it because the ground is dry - in winter and spring when the ground is wetter it is downright hazardous due to the potential to slide the tractor - I have industrial tires because I must drive the tractor on my lawn from time to time. What's bad about fall is the tall meadow grasses and saplings - a variety of vegetation has grown up to 4-5 feet high over each summer. Also the growth is dry, with seeds and a lot of it has very fluffy cotton-like material - which argues for a spring hogging before new growth but I can't do it.
In this thread I've read that some of you have tractors that blow off vegetative debris (pun intended) even when its blocking your hood air inlets and the screens in front of your radiator cores. No overheating. Not me. I wish! From the first time I bush hogged if that screen in front of the radiator gets coated the temperature starts to rise. I've never let it get above the highest white line on the gauge and into the red, but I'm pretty sure if I didn't stop mowing to address it it would. What I have to do is carry around in the FEL bucket an electric leaf blower. Every 10-15 minutes, sometimes less (!), I have to stop the tractor, open the hood and blow it all out. When it's really misbehaving I have to shut off the engine so I can direct some leaf blower airflow forward through the radiator (not fight the fan). I do see a fine dust expelled. This brings temps back into the narrow "all good" range - until I bush hog another 10 minutes. It does this with outside air temperatures below 75 degrees. This is with running the tractor in LOW range and 4 four wheel drive selected (need it), running right at 2,500 engine RPM for the 540 PTO to be correct, and not going very fast so the bush hog can cut and mulch. When I go up hill I have to add throttle, when going downhill ****** throttle (it is a lever on the side of the steering wheel). A lot of the time I'll engage a magnet to hold the hydrostatic pedal at the right speed.
I've talked to my dealership over the years and they told me their "fix" for this fairly common problem in our hill country is to blow out the radiator fins. I have done that with a 150 psi compressor and handy pistol grip tool. I like the long arm I saw in this thread with the 90 degree nozzle - I will get one of those for sure. When I do blow out with compressed air I get lots of fine dust out of the fins. An hour later it is overheating again. I am really surprised that my tractor hasn't been engineered with an over-engineered cooling system (if there isn't anything wrong with it otherwise). Of course tractor hood's air inlets will get clogged mowing or harvesting crops. Of course the screen in front will likely get clogged. Some of you have tractors that don't overheat when this happens. Mine overheats, really, with the least clogging and it shouldn't. I could have gotten a 45 HP version of the same tractor and wish I had - I can tell my tractor is right at the limit of its ability going uphill. By this I mean it won't hold 2,500 RPM with almost wide open throttle if I try and push the "go forward" pedal faster than the proper speed I want to bush hog at - it starts to bog down.
So...is it the thermostat not fully opening? How interesting that people here with years of tractor and engine maintenance disagree about having one at all. My first instinct was to remove the thermostat. I don't need to rush warming up my tractor. My tractor lives in a heated garage that I let get only as cold as 40F in winter. I really don't even run the tractor in winter. although there is a scenario where I might need to move snow with the bucket. If the purpose of a thermostat is to get a diesel engine up to operating temperature quickly in winter, and maintain it there in winter, then maybe if mine is faulty replacing it, or just taking it out, would help resolve my chronic, too-easily overheating problem. If the engine actually needs restricted coolant flow via a partially closed thermometer to allow time for radiator heat exchange, or there is that Y fork in the coolant road inside the engine that not enough restriction to the radiator will route too hot coolant right back towards the engine, then I could damage the engine even testing it. My engine temperature gauge might say things are dandy, but that pickoff is at the radiator not internal to the engine (although I'm not sure where it is read). I don't doubt the posters who say don't run without a thermostat, but...I sure want to!
Here's the troubleshooting notes I took from this thread;
Always blow all the dirt out of the radiator before using water or you'll just make mud you may have trouble getting out. Ummm, guilty as charged. I washed out the radiator my first year and probably did create some cement-like crud. When advised about this being a bad idea in year three of ownership I sprayed foaming brake cleaning fluid into the radiator (still on the tractor, imperfect application, but I'm not a very competent or confident mechanic), let it sit about 20 minutes, then rinsed it out. Didn't help much. Now I only blow it out with air.
Check air flow direction through the radiator. Is fan pulling or pushing? Should be pulling.
Oil level slightly over the full line - could cause the crank to hit the oil and foam it up. The poster mentioning this drained less than 8 oz out which lowered the level to about the 80% mark and it totally resolved The crank hitting the oil in the bottom of the engine is what was causing the engine to work harder, use more fuel and run hotter.
I need to get an infrared thermometer to look at the radiator and, to the extent possible, my hydrostatic transmission's oil cooler, which is in front of the radiator. The cooling air for the engine is drawn through the oil cooler first, so if the oil is overheated, the radiator air is going to be hotter than normal too. With Covid 19 I looked at these infrared thermometers and they aren't that expensive. With an infrared thermometer I should see exactly at what temperature the thermostat opens and closes. I can block and unblock the radiator with a plastic garbage bag (or cardboard, methinks) to see thermometer behavior. There should be about a 30F difference between the upper and lower radiator hoses.
Check for possible oil cooler installed wrong, such as both inlet and outlet facing down, or the inlet on top and the outlet on bottom. The oil may not be filling the cooler and bypassing some of the cooler's ability to cool.
A partially open thermostat recirculates coolant through the block, not the radiator. Replace thermostat with a restrictor?
Run some strong radiator/block cleaner in it? The coolant after 6 years and only 400 hours - looks green and the overflow bottle is at half level. One poster said, "Make sure the coolant ratio is dead on - it was about 65% glycol and the rest water, instead of 50/50 like they recommend." He said when the mix was right his overheating problem abated.
Air intake restriction will cause overheating. Check air filter. My neighbor mentioned this a few year ago. I put a new air filter in - still overheats the same. I do blow it out now when blowing out the radiator.
Look at the water pump for signs of corrosion or breakage of fins? This is getting into the engine further than I can get at home. I could have the dealership do this at the 400 hour service, and replace or remove the thermostat, but just the regular service already costs about $900.
Are the bush hog blades sharp? Are the blades correctly installed? Are there any defects (bearings, etc,,..) in the bush hog? I just checked to ensure the bush hog gear box was properly filled with fluid. It was. Maybe there is something not great about the size - it's causing too much load on the tractor. Maybe I need a 5 foot hog? Maybe my hills and the 6 foot hog, and the weight, are just to much for my tractor? If so...shame on Kioti for under-engineering their cooling system. Even carefully and slowly mowing cross hill - not much up and down or gentle up and down - it still overheats.
Replace original single row radiator with a 2 row radiator meant for AC and tranny cooling. Poster said, "Now temp stays at the very low end of the normal operating range. New radiator was a direct bolt up replacement. Everything fit perfectly. Best $80 bucks I ever spent."
Get a mobile tractor mechanic, or an experienced diesel mechanic, to my property to diagnose and repair your overheating tractor. I kind of like this idea. My dealership charges a lot, and charged $150 to fetch and bring back my tractor for its $900 50 hour new tractor full service. Over a grand to change hydraulic fluid, oil, and a couple of filters, and look it over is a lot!
So that's the list I got from this great thread - thanks again to all posters. I'm going to run through and check what I can tomorrow.
What I've done for years is when my engine starts to complain and get hot, even after cleaning off the visible debris with the leaf blower, and after blowing the radiator out with compressed air, is mow with the hood raised. When I do this the interval between stopping is lengthened, but it still overheats. This "hood up" fashion statement is not helping me make progress towards my coveted "Country Man Third Class Certification", the first step up from "Country Man Conehead", and, just as some of you will be thinking, and my supportive farm neighbors no doubt think, "Why hasn't that city-slicker just fixed his overheating problem once and for all?"
Any further suggestions would be welcomed. It may just be...as one poster pointed out...that I'm asking too much of 41 HP Wile E. Kioti in the first place. My hills are steep, the brush is high, the clogging is a fact of life. But I sure hope not.
Best,
Rhino
