had a gentleman bout 15 miles from me who was a preacher. our paper said he was dragging a tree. he was useing an old international and the tree got hung up. the tractor flipped over backwards and the man was crushed. of couse the tractor had no rops. and i use to use an old farmall cub to pull logs without a rops. guess i was lucky,,and glad my kubota has one.
tractor roleover
- Thread starter oakwood
- Start date
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Thats a sad story....growing up I operated an old Farmall 140 all over our hilly farm,clipping the pastures etc...I was lucky...some of the places I went and some of the things I done.....I would never have a tractor without ROP and of course the seat belt has to be included and used with any ROP.
Cliff_Johns
Elite Member
</font><font color="blue" class="small">( he was dragging a tree. he was useing an old international and the tree got hung up. the tractor flipped over backwards )</font>
For this to happen, I think he had to have had the tree tied to the tractor above the axel line, unless I'm misreading it..
Cliff
For this to happen, I think he had to have had the tree tied to the tractor above the axel line, unless I'm misreading it..
Cliff
Henro
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 4,982
- Location
- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
<font color="blue"> Could've been on an incline. Gerard </font>
I'm having trouble seeing how a properyly attached pulling line could cause a back flip, on the level or on an incline...
Pulling from below the rear axle sure looks like it should never cause a back flip, whatever the angle of the land.
If I were from the right state, I'd say show me how. But I'm from PA so I'll just say I am /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif by that thought... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
I'm having trouble seeing how a properyly attached pulling line could cause a back flip, on the level or on an incline...
Pulling from below the rear axle sure looks like it should never cause a back flip, whatever the angle of the land.
If I were from the right state, I'd say show me how. But I'm from PA so I'll just say I am /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif by that thought... /forums/images/graemlins/smile.gif
GaryE
Platinum Member
<font color="blue">I'm having trouble seeing how a properyly attached pulling line could cause a back flip </font>
Henro,
It has happened to me more than once while skidding logs on my little B6000. If you have any forward momentum that is suddenly stopped by the load, the torque of the tractor will want to continue to keep the wheels turning. If you have any traction at all the wheels will stop / slow down, but the tractor keeps pulling. The end result is the front end starts to lift. I have been almost at 45 degrees before I jumped on the clutch. And yes, that was with the load hooked under the axle.
It can happen so quickly I have learned to have my left foot ready to jump on the clutch. If you would like to see it happen I will be cutting some more firewood this spring and if you would like to help!!!!!!!!!!
Gary
Henro,
It has happened to me more than once while skidding logs on my little B6000. If you have any forward momentum that is suddenly stopped by the load, the torque of the tractor will want to continue to keep the wheels turning. If you have any traction at all the wheels will stop / slow down, but the tractor keeps pulling. The end result is the front end starts to lift. I have been almost at 45 degrees before I jumped on the clutch. And yes, that was with the load hooked under the axle.
It can happen so quickly I have learned to have my left foot ready to jump on the clutch. If you would like to see it happen I will be cutting some more firewood this spring and if you would like to help!!!!!!!!!!
Gary
Henro
Elite Member
- Joined
- Jul 4, 2003
- Messages
- 4,982
- Location
- Few miles north of Pgh, PA
- Tractor
- Kubota B2910, BX2200, KX41-2V mini EX
<font color="blue"> If you have any forward momentum that is suddenly stopped by the load, the torque of the tractor will want to continue to keep the wheels turning. If you have any traction at all the wheels will stop / slow down, but the tractor keeps pulling. The end result is the front end starts to lift. I have been almost at 45 degrees before I jumped on the clutch. And yes, that was with the load hooked under the axle.
</font>
That's interesting. And I don't want to sound like I don't believe it. Because I tend to value experience over theory.
But I wonder how that could happen. Or better put, why that would happen.
For example, it make good sense that if one's tires were frozen to the ground, and he tried to drive forward, that the tractor would rotate around the rear axle in the back flip mode.
But if there happened to be a cable or chain tied to the draw bar, and secured to a large tree, then it also seems that this would counter the back flip tendency, and the engine would stall rather than being able to back flip the tractor.
So I guess the answer has to be that the torque applied to the rear wheels, when it is all said an done, exceeds the amount of torque that is available to counter the back flip, as applied by the cable/chain/load pulling back on the draw bar.
Very interesting.
I can see how this could be the case. I wonder if the tractor manufacturers take this possibility into consideration when determining the distance below the rear axle that the draw bar is placed at?
Bottom line is for a back flip to occur, the torque available to rotate the tractor backwards about the rear axle has to be greater than the torque that results from the pull against the draw bar, which is below the axle and tends to keep the front wheels on the ground.
Almost counter intuitive, but very possible when one take real world experience and considers it with an open mind...
</font>
That's interesting. And I don't want to sound like I don't believe it. Because I tend to value experience over theory.
But I wonder how that could happen. Or better put, why that would happen.
For example, it make good sense that if one's tires were frozen to the ground, and he tried to drive forward, that the tractor would rotate around the rear axle in the back flip mode.
But if there happened to be a cable or chain tied to the draw bar, and secured to a large tree, then it also seems that this would counter the back flip tendency, and the engine would stall rather than being able to back flip the tractor.
So I guess the answer has to be that the torque applied to the rear wheels, when it is all said an done, exceeds the amount of torque that is available to counter the back flip, as applied by the cable/chain/load pulling back on the draw bar.
Very interesting.
I can see how this could be the case. I wonder if the tractor manufacturers take this possibility into consideration when determining the distance below the rear axle that the draw bar is placed at?
Bottom line is for a back flip to occur, the torque available to rotate the tractor backwards about the rear axle has to be greater than the torque that results from the pull against the draw bar, which is below the axle and tends to keep the front wheels on the ground.
Almost counter intuitive, but very possible when one take real world experience and considers it with an open mind...
slowrev
Elite Member
Many people when snaking logs hook it to the lift so they can lift up the front of the log a bit. Then the log gets hung up so the front of the tractor comes up a bit, then the log can come loose and shoot up under the tractor adding rolover action to the situation....Not sure what happened here but....
In any case a sad event.
Ben
In any case a sad event.
Ben
Jeff396
Veteran Member
<font color="blue">Bottom line is for a back flip to occur, the torque available to rotate the tractor backwards about the rear axle has to be greater than the torque that results from the pull against the draw bar, which is below the axle and tends to keep the front wheels on the ground. </font>
I would assume that the tires aren't going to get perfect traction. I wonder if while the front end rises, the tires slip a bit and the non moving load actually ends up pulling the tractor back a bit while it's on its way over. Sort of a moonwalk thing. I wouldn't think the distance that the tractor would have to be pulled back would be all that great with the load attached a short distance below the axle.
Jeff
I would assume that the tires aren't going to get perfect traction. I wonder if while the front end rises, the tires slip a bit and the non moving load actually ends up pulling the tractor back a bit while it's on its way over. Sort of a moonwalk thing. I wouldn't think the distance that the tractor would have to be pulled back would be all that great with the load attached a short distance below the axle.
Jeff