Tractor VS Train

[cowboy357]

Never thought I,d here about this kind of mishap, Luckily No fatalaties & sounds like He might make it Ok . Bad thing about rural areas around here anyway , no crossing arms & really fast trains . Bob

Tractor-Train Crash Leaves Kansas Man Injured

 

[Wombat125]

That's unfortunate, but looks like it will turn out better than a lot of train vs vehicle altercations.

The last line of the article was:

The crossing does not have crossing arms.

I hope this was just stated as a matter of fact. The first time I read it, I interpreted it as indignation on the part of the article's author that it was somehow irresponsible on the part of the company/government/etc, not to have crossing guards on every road everywhere.

Aside from being ridiculously infeasible, I'm just tired of the attitude that we need to be protected from every possible danger around us regardless of cost. Soon we're going to live in a world completely made of Nerf.

Sorry about the long-winded, semi-relevant rant. Actually a Nerf world sounds kind of fun.

 

[cowboy357]

That's unfortunate, but looks like it will turn out better than a lot of train vs vehicle altercations.

The last line of the article was:

The crossing does not have crossing arms.

I hope this was just stated as a matter of fact. The first time I read it, I interpreted it as indignation on the part of the article's author that it was somehow irresponsible on the part of the company/government/etc, not to have crossing guards on every road everywhere.

Aside from being ridiculously infeasible, I'm just tired of the attitude that we need to be protected from every possible danger around us regardless of cost. Soon we're going to live in a world completely made of Nerf.

Sorry about the long-winded, semi-relevant rant. Actually a Nerf world sounds kind of fun.

I know what You Mean Wombat125 .

But the difference is recentlly there has been Detours raised or tunneled through the big towns , to where the trains never need to slow down before hitting Small towns & rural areas . With increased Speeds & no having to slow down , There should be some type of warning that the trains May be travelling faster then normall people in the rural ares are used to . At least a speed Limit IMO .

Yes You have to pay attention . But still , On a noisy tractor A rural road You are used to using all Your life , But No warning lights or crossbars & the speeds have changed . Just seems unfair to Me When we have to put up with the Rumbling as well as the noise & Their the ones making money.

Since They have done this The accidents have increased by quite a bit. & ussuslly causes fatalitys as well as Derails .

Probablly just Me though , I,m from the old school if it aint broke dont fix it . 50 t0 70 MPH with 2 or 300 boxcars plus is Plain rediculous to Me when The ones that lived out here all their live are Used to less the half of the speed . Bob

 

[tugboat-2]

Hi Bob,....Yes I feel they should certainly slow down going through any built up area because at those higher speeds you can bet a derailment of just empty box cars is going to snake through the area and wipe out some homes.

But then you add a few tankers with the kind of chemical they carry today and you can add all sorts of disasterous nightmares, with fires, explosions and the threat, (or reality) of poison gasses wafting through a sleeping town!!! Good bye town!!

We had a dandy up here in the City of Mississauga back in 1979. A simple wheel bearing wasn't oiled on time and got hot and siezed as it entered the City and of course that wheel stopped turning and dragged its truck off the track while still rolling along!

Created a bad derailment,...but I believe the resulting explosions did more damage than just the wreck. where the chemical tankers blew and actually tossed at least one box car high into the air. One of those cars was found nearly a "MILE" away (Really!) thankfully in a field, but literally "thousands" of folks had to be evacuated out of town in the middle of the night, and kept away for over a week. That train snaked right through the backyards of many, ..... amazingly, no fatalities, partly because it was the middle of the night,....no traffic at that crossing, the factories affected were closed and empty for the night. The fact that the tankers blew right "at" the intersection, away from immediate homes, was lucky, but had there been cars waiting for the train to pass, many of them would have been history!

I'll never forget the continuous roaring and volley of huge fire balls rising high into the sky and of course the tremendous heat driving emergency and fire crews back for quite a while. The brave fire crews kept pouring water and foam etc on the other tankers in fear they would blow.

Can't just recall the chemicals but would have been deadly, hence the mass evacuation of (I believe) 250,000 people!!!

Oh sorry,..more of my rambling,...but yes, my main reply was simply meant to agree that high speed trains, should be made to slow down in built up areas.
Thanks for your patience,
. . tug

 

[amigauser]

Mississauga.ca - Residents - Mississauga Train Derailment

1979 Mississauga train derailment - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[tugboat-2]

amigauser: ...thank you for finding those links,...sure brings back some very scary memories!

Viewing the photos, I wondered why they showed the Queen Elizabeth Way, a multilane freeway running through Mississauga,...then it dawned on me that it shows a completely abandoned highway,...during the evacuation,..normally it is bumper to bumper with high speed traffic 24 - 7.

And yes those fire balls, shooting up 5000 feet in the air,...unforgetable! Hard to believe the 27 year old Brakeman, ran down to the wreck and turned the valve that allowed the engine to pull the rest of the train away from the wreck. He is now a Canadian Hero!

Anyway, thanks again "amigauser".
All the best,
. . tug

 

[aczlan]

But the difference is recentlly there has been Detours raised or tunneled through the big towns , to where the trains never need to slow down before hitting Small towns & rural areas . With increased Speeds & no having to slow down , There should be some type of warning that the trains May be travelling faster then normall people in the rural ares are used to . At least a speed Limit IMO .

There is a speed limit on trains, see here, it varies depending on the track quality and location.

Yes You have to pay attention . But still , On a noisy tractor A rural road You are used to using all Your life , But No warning lights or crossbars & the speeds have changed

Kansas state law REQUIRES "that drivers, within 50 and 15 feet of the tracks, look to ensure a clear, safe way to cross the tracks when a train is coming", If this person had done that he would have seen the train coming and would not have been hit. His failure to do this was the DIRECT cause of his accident. If you are at a rail crossing and see a train coming you should stop and yield the right of way as they cannot stop in time to keep from hitting you without derailing.

Just seems unfair to Me When we have to put up with the Rumbling as well as the noise & Their the ones making money.

Rail is (IIRC) the most efficient way to move cargo overland and on the making money bit, the person who sold them the right of way so that they could build the line probably made quite a bit of money and they are now doing what companies do, that is try to make money. If your company is not trying to make money, it is doing something wrong.

Probablly just Me though , I,m from the old school if it aint broke dont fix it . 50 t0 70 MPH with 2 or 300 boxcars plus is Plain rediculous to Me when The ones that lived out here all their live are Used to less the half of the speed

Well, these days money is tight for everyone and one way to curb costs is to run longer (often faster) trains. Sometimes, running a longer train nessicates running it faster as some places have a law that says that the train cannot block the crossing for more than x minutes.

Personally, I do not blame the railroads for trying to be more efficient they have been right on the edge for a long time and to do otherwise (especially in these times) would be financial suicide.

Aaron Z

 

[Renze]

The last line of the article was:

The crossing does not have crossing arms.

Over here in Holland, there are some overpasses on rural roads that have no crossing arms: However they all have warning flashlights and a bell, regardless if crossing arms are used or not.
I think they put crossing arms on many overpasses, so the national railway is allowed to increase the speed limit at that track. With a low sun, often you dont see the red flashlights and on a tractor, dont hear the bells. If you dont have a clear line of sight on the track, accidents are waiting to happen.

 

[cowboy357]

Great info Aaron & I agree with Most of it .

I,m not saying all RR crossings are Dangerous , But there are some rural ones around here , Much like the one where this accident took Place that are Only marked by the X marked railroad & Lined by hedgerows on both sides of the tracks on Both sides of the road . Where a slow moving Vehicle has little chance crossing safelly if the speed of the train is to fast . I,ve had several close calls Myself when I was still driving .

As far as Them Having a speed limit , I,m sure They do , But Who Regulates it ? Theres a speed limit on Most roads , Dont mean all Obey it .

Theres one crossing not more then a mile or so from Me , that has nothing but the X Crossing sign & you can not see a train coming from one direction untill you approach the tracks From one direction . Coming from the other way You can see it without any trouble . Peoples been Trying to get something done about it for years with no luck . So IMO not all accidents are Unavoidable & I beleive the RR to be at fault in some cases Much like this one.

So I,ll just have to agree to disagree . . Bob

 

[The Haymaker]

To me, there is an "X" at every crossing. It is formed when the rails cross the road. This "X" wakes me from my cranial slumber and makes me look to see if the train is coming, AND look long enough to judge the speed.

This makes me think of the aftermath of a 50hp (Or so) Kubota a retiree had just bought with the intention on filling roadside mowing contracts. I was third truck to come upon him after he did a u-turn in front of 100,000lbs of truck and logs at probably 60mph.

The out come was not good for any involved, including the tractor.

Moral of story? PAY ATTENTION! The life you save will probably be your own.

E

 

[cowboy357]

To me, there is an "X" at every crossing. It is formed when the rails cross the road. This "X" wakes me from my cranial slumber and makes me look to see if the train is coming, AND look long enough to judge the speed.E

I,m not sure what You are reffering to The Haymaker , I,m guessing paved or concrete roads .

I,m beggining to wonder if Kansas is the only place that has the narrow dirt back roads with no lights or crossing signals I,m referring to , as well as the one lane narrow bridges where only one vehicle can cross at a time . . Bob

 

[Midsouth]

What he is saying is that if you could look at it from overhead the tracks and the road make an X where they cross.

 

[Gardening]

Thats very nice news, that a little hurt only done to the driver. If we follow the road safety rules correctly then no need to panic at any place in the roads. Follow the road rules be happy always.

 

[chh]

I just finished a CDL course. The phrase to remember for all rail crossings was "Look, Listen, and Live".
Of course driving over the same crossing on a regular basis and not seeing trains until you get used to one not being there is a sure way to build the habit of not thinking about it. That can easily be the recipe for disaster.

 

[tallyho8]

I,m beggining to wonder if Kansas is the only place that has the narrow dirt back roads with no lights or crossing signals I,m referring to , as well as the one lane narrow bridges where only one vehicle can cross at a time . . Bob

No, Kansas isn't the only place yet. This is a one lane bridge on Hwy 123 in the Ozarks in Arkansas not far from my property. They did pave this road a few years ago though. There are many unpaved roads in the area but no train tracks. The next county over, Newton County, is the only county in Arkansas with no railroad tracks.

 

[GreenLawnFarm]

the crossing does not have crossing arms. i read this as here comes a lawsuit and then some crossing signal lights and arms. and i have a hard time finding fault with the train engineer, even if they were going too fast. it's a train and it's not stopping for anything.

 

[cowboy357]

the crossing does not have crossing arms. i read this as here comes a lawsuit and then some crossing signal lights and arms. and i have a hard time finding fault with the train engineer, even if they were going too fast. it's a train and it's not stopping for anything.

I dont quite understand how You could not find fault if the engineer was in fact traveling above the set speed limit . That May or not been the case .

But it makes one heck of a difference at even 5 or 10 MPH faster to a slow moving vehicle . Maybe its just Me , But IMHO , Its upto the railroad to make sure the crossings are well marked with either lights or crossing arms . Depending on how much the road is traveled .

At the very least They should make sure all trees & crossings are clear because afterall it is their easement . Much like the utilitys companys have to do . Which at least out here The RR do not .

Yes You need to pay attention , no doubt . Which maybe in this case the tractor operator was not . But its not allways the case .

The RR makes a lot of money using those train tracks & very few people had a choice wether to sell the property in the last 50 years at least .

Most derailments & some train accidents are in fact due to negligence of the RR , doing regular maintenance to the tracks & crossings .

Being retired from the trucking & grain hauling buisiness I,ve made a fair amount of money doing cleanup & hauling grain from train wreck sites , Which included several fatalitys . In this type of accident its really hard to forget .

They dont care what they have to pay at that time as they have to clear the tracks NOW & most times settle out of court before any lawsuits are brought on . So if it takes a few lawsuits to make them accountable , I have no problem with that . Makes more sence then suing Mcdonalds For spilling hot coffe in your lap .

But once again it May have nothing to do with this accident . I just think its time the big companys to step up & take responsability, like all the smaller companys are forced to. Just My opinion , As I,ve had a few close calls myself & I was paying attention .



No one expects the train to stop for traffic Bob

 

[aczlan]

I dont quite understand how You could not find fault if the engineer was in fact traveling above the set speed limit . That May or not been the case .

But it makes one heck of a difference at even 5 or 10 MPH faster to a slow moving vehicle . Maybe its just Me , But IMHO , Its upto the railroad to make sure the crossings are well marked with either lights or crossing arms . Depending on how much the road is traveled .

I know nothing about this case (other than what I read in the linked news article), but if the state law says that you need to stop and look/listen before crossing a unsignaled (ie: no arms or lights) railroad track than it is your fault if you get hit by a train at a unsignaled crossing(unless the engineer is speeding and not sounding his horn for the crossing) a signaled crossing on the other hand, I can see the RR being liable if it was malfunctioning.
My rule of thumb is that if I can see the train at a unsignaled crossing (this is in upstate NY, so sightlines are short in relation to how they are in some other ports of the country) I will not cross. It is better to wait 5-10 mins for the train to pass than have to explain to my wife that I will be in a wheelchair for the rest of my life because I was in too much of a hurry to wait for the train to pass.

At the very least They should make sure all trees & crossings are clear because afterall it is their easement . Much like the utilitys companys have to do . Which at least out here The RR do not .

I think you are comparing apples and oranges here.

• Yes, the RR should have to keep the sightlines clear at rail crossings (that is a safety issue and you might be best served by writing your state public safety commission and/or your state representatives about the matter if they are not doing so).
• But as I understand it, the utility companies are not required to keep their lines clear, they clear them for 2 reasons
  1. So that trees/tree limbs don't fall on the lines/poles (cheaper to keep them trimmed than have someone come in on an emergency basis when a ice storm or what have you strikes)
  2. So that they can get in when they need to perform maintainance on their lines/poles

Yes You need to pay attention , no doubt . Which maybe in this case the tractor operator was not . But its not allways the case

If the engineer was sounding his horn and going withing the speed limit for that section of track, the tractor operator was at fault. If they do not already have them, trains should have a "black box" data recorder that tells how fast the train was traveling, if the horn was blowing, etc it could perhaps even include a video taken from the front of the train, that way there could be no doubt what had happened when things like this happen.

The RR makes a lot of money using those train tracks & very few people had a choice wether to sell the property in the last 50 years at least

True.

Most derailments & some train accidents are in fact due to negligence of the RR , doing regular maintenance to the tracks & crossings .

Derailments are a separate issue, the case in point is someone who was driving a tractor that was hit by a train.

Being retired from the trucking & grain hauling buisiness I,ve made a fair amount of money doing cleanup & hauling grain from train wreck sites , Which included several fatalitys . In this type of accident its really hard to forget
They dont care what they have to pay at that time as they have to clear the tracks NOW & most times settle out of court before any lawsuits are brought on . So if it takes a few lawsuits to make them accountable , I have no problem with that . Makes more sence then suing Mcdonalds For spilling hot coffe in your lap .

They are losing thousands of dollars (or in some cases tens of thousands of dollars or more) per day by having the lines closed due to a derailment/accident, not only are they not able to make money off of a closed line, but they have contracts that probably have stiff penalties if they do not get the goods shipped and they lose money by having locomotives and rolling stock sitting idle (depreciating) rather than working. So, I am not surprised that they are willing to pay whatever it takes to get the lines reopened ASAP.
On the MacDonalds coffee lawsuit, there was some merit to her case... see Wikipedia for more info.

Aaron Z

 

[cowboy357]

Once again Aaron , You make very valid points & say them much better then I can . I certainlly cant argue with that , so i wont .

Also thanks for the link on the law suit, there was some points I was not aware of . It does sound like , as You say there was some merit to her case . The facts may not have been what the media fed to the public . So thanks for that as well .

I guess My opinion of the RR , stems from personall experiences with them, & I compare them to the other large companys that do what they do when they want to do it , With not much thought about the general public , let alone how they take care of their own & throw them under the bus when they need a scapegoat . Much like the postal service, oil & insurance companys do. But thats just my opinion. . Bob