Tractors, Mini-TLBs, and Life

[MChalkley]

I'd like to hear from the TBN gang on the subject of what you use your Compact Utility Tractor for. I'm interested because I want to see how the EarthForce Mini-TLBs fit into the usage patterns of typical CUT owners. I'm not talking about differences in operation, but rather what you do with your CUT and, if it's not obvious, why. I'm going to use the information to try to get an idea of how adaptable the EarthForce form factor is to the "typical" CUT user's needs.

Some of you have perhaps looked at my "Goodbye Kubota, Hello EarthForce" thread in the "Other Brands" forum. (I'm sure nobody has read it all. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif) If so, you have some idea of what I bought the EF-5 to do, and why I replaced my L4310HST with it. But, in view of the fact that I bought the next to largest EarthForce model (and the biggest one is near Case 580 size), remember that there are 5 models of EarthForce machines smaller than the one I got. A good idea of the specs for the units can be got from <A target="_blank" HREF=http://www.earthforce.com>the EarthForce web site</A>.

So, how do you use your CUT, and do you have any thoughts on whether and why or why not a Mini-TLB would serve you as well, or better? What are the issues? Money, size, what? With due respect, I'm not talking about preferences of how you do what you do - you can't know whether you like rear-mounted blades better that front-mounted ones if you haven't tried both, for example. I'm just talking about what the two kinds of machines will and won't, can and can't, do.

 

[Bird]

Mark, I doubt that anyone could remember what all he/she uses his/her tractor for; bound to miss or forget a few things./w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif Let's see:

Pasture mowing
Lawn mowing
Garden Tilling
Garden and other plowing
Garden cultivating
Trailer towing (various things in the trailer)
Dirt and gravel moving, spreading, smoothing, etc., including filling in an old stock tank, cleaning and enlarging another stock tank, digging foundation for house
Pallet moving (fuel barrel, bricks, trash barrels and other things)
Mowing small buildings on skids
Lift one corner of a barn to put a post in after a windstorm
Tow boat to launching ramp
Carry lawn chair and fishing gear to creek to go fishing from bank
Brush removal
Pull other stuck vehicle from borrow ditch
Lift neighbor high enough to prune trees without using ladder
Lift engine and transmission to set into chassis of vehicle
Pull trees down and drag trees
Backfill around foundation
Fill ditches after installation of water and electric lines
Dig ditches
Load utility poles on trailer
Clean out barn, move and spread the fertilizer
Pull spray rig for insecticide


Oh well, it's a start./w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[tbarber]

All I do is cut the grass 3/4 acer ,till the garden,snowblow or
plow 110' drive plus other little things.
Also do things for the neighbors as well. The JD 855 is way over kill but I got it dirt cheap, and if I find extra work for it all the better.

 

[MChalkley]

Bird - Wonderful list! That lawn chair and fishin' gear totin' is gonna be trouble, for sure. /w3tcompact/icons/laugh.gif

 

[TerryinMD]

I use my JD4100 to do the following:

- mowing the grass with the MMM
- rotary cutting the property to keep down weeds and brush
- plowing the garden area
- rototilling the garden area
- cleaning out neighbors barn and sheep manure pile
- repairing subdivision roads
- using the FEL to pull, push, carry, destroy, cut, dig, etc.
- use the rear blade to cut new drives, level them, spread gravel, move snow, etc
- middle buster to break ground, dig furrows for potatoes, corn, leeks, asparagus, electric lines, or any other trenching job that seems possible
- pull a small utility trailer
- pull out stuck backhoes (believe it or not!!)

Probably missed a couple of things.

Terry

 

[PaulinSD]

For us, the JD1050:
mow with 6' befco rotary, JD 25A flail mower and JD 90 boom flail. We mow about 90 acres every 3 weeks in the summer for one customer, 4 miles of railroad right of way, and about 5 acres at a bulk cement plant distrubution center.

The 955 with fel:

with box blade, lot clean ups, load and haul excess fill material on lots. With 5' KK rotary, mow the smaller lots and trim while the wife mows the large areas. Snow removal in the winter on our own property.

Use both on our 10 acres, pulling fence, mowing, and will work on landscaping of new home this summer.

In our line of work, I need tractors with 3 point hitch, PTO and in some cases, 4 wheel drive for the hills and soft areas. It is becoming increasing more clear to us, we need a tractor with a cab and a/c. As our business grows, we need more mowing production in the hot summer months. My wife usually mows 5 days a week in the summer, 7 am to about noon. She can't take the hot afternoon sun. We both usually mow together in the evenings.

Paul

 

[frank_f15]

cutting grass
cutting fields
snow removal
clearing brush
dragging trees
dirt moving
grading
snow removal
digging rocks out
pulling stuck delivery trucks(yesterday)
lifting things i cant
digging trenches for drain line(this spring)
anything else i can think of
snow removal
mentioned snow removal a few times, cause i do a lot of it/w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

 

[DFB]

Garden rototilling
Tine cultivator
Snow removal (bucket n' rear blade combo)
Field mowing/brush hogging
Landscape raking: followup to dozer work, for seed prep, repair rain erosion damage
FEL work including material distribution of topsoil, sand fill, wood chips bark mulch, drainage stone, field stones, firewood, logging debris, loader fork use
Carryall transport
Heavy load handling: FEL, boompole
Blade work
On site trailer handling

Future plans include
Subsoiler/middlebuster
hydraulic dump trailer
3pt mulch layer,
mechanical planter

maybe a 3pt finish mower someday too

The 4100 handles my needs well right now. I am only maintaining a combined 10 acres and have to transport the machine approx 200 mi between properties several times a year.

A small 3pt backhoe would be nice to have but seems limited in what it can do. Probably not very cost effective.

Getting a larger tractor would have to include a larger truck too.

Been to the EF website. The machines are definitely /w3tcompact/icons/cool.gif

DFB

 

[gordon]

What I do with my tractor,,,,ok here goes,,,,whatever makes me money... I'm not to picky when it comes to the job and I use it as a tractor,,,run the tar out of it. Bottom line,,,,is it making me money...

Never drove an Earth Force so I can't compare the two, or compare it's strong points versus weak points of both tractors. But I can say the biggest weak point on my Kubota is the loader. I don't believe it has as much oooppphhh as my last one. Then again it might just be me.

Overall Mark your going to get the same twenty or so answers. You know all the basics that the compacts excell at and also their weaknesses. So after having the compact, you would be the best judge as to how the earth force excells at something compared to the compact. Or on the other hand the compact really shines compared to the earth force.

Price would more than likely be the factor in alot of the choices. As well as having to change over the existing three point attachments. At this time there would be no way that I could afford to do what you just did. A healthy bit of pocket change there. Don't know how much you have invested but the bottom line is As long as it makes you more than its total costs your doing ok.


Would be nice to have a backhoe. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif Or a few of those kubota parts u have left over. /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

Did I answer your questions??
Gordon

 

[Thomas]

Flower garden. /w3tcompact/icons/wink.gif

 

[BMW]

Finish mowing
cutting fields
clearing brush
dragging trees/brush/stumps
plowing
disking
tilling
pushing/pulling dirt
grading road
snow removal (if it ever snows around here)
carrying stuff
Lifting stuff (the 3PH carry-all makes a good jack to lift the front end of a little Ford Festiva for jack stands)
Joy riding / estate patrol

pretty much anything I can think of to get more seat time.

Later
Mark

 

[cowboydoc]

I do most of what everyone else has said that they do and addition do alot of farm work with mine that I don't think the earthforce could be compatible with. Haying, moving round bales, pulling hay wagons, pulling disc, plow, planter, hayrake, baler, etc. I don't think you could ever use one for farming as you need the three point and the rear pto. With alot of the equipment too the loader and the backhoe have to come off and I have to be able to use any of the farming machinery out there.

 

[n6ckv]

In addition to the above list:

Removing T-posts
Drilling holes for posts/trees

 

[hayden]

Here are the implements I use. Most are 3PH, but any widely used, standardized attachment method would be fine. In many cases, having the implement front mounted would be nice, but I'm not sure I'd be willing to remove the loader to have the implement on the front. There are aspects of Glenmac's two headed push-me-pull-you design that I like.

Implements I use and location preference are:

Loader (front)
Backhoe (back, given loader in front. Both must co-exist)
Logging winch (back)
Chipper (doesn't matter
field mower (front or back)
Snow blower (front prefered, but like having loader too)
Grader blade (either, but again co-existance with loader is real nice)

 

[BrianC]

Joy riding / estate patrol...

Thats great...I thought I was the only one who did that...LOL

add finish mowing
snow blowing
grading 1000 ft drive and 3/4 mile discontinued town road
gravel work
building snow sled runs for kids
transport vehicle for hay rides
added spreader to use for spreading sand and salt
and anything else someone will let me do....

Kind of excited, I will be taking delivery of a new 990 tomorrow. Trading in my sweet 950.

Kind Regards

Brian

 

[Thomas]

Helping to put dinner on the table./w3tcompact/icons/eyes.gif

 

[DFB]

Thomas, nice one. If ya keep gettin 'em like that your gonna be needing a bigger fel bucket for sure. /w3tcompact/icons/grin.gif

DFB

 

[RocketJSquirrel]

I can see your general point, being: if you use a compact tractor exclusively for digging, loading, backhoe-ing, look at a different unit. I rented the smallest EarthForce for a day. The EF-1 with Kohler 25HP gas engine. It had a real strong loader. It lifts something like 2600 lbs. The backhoe was so-so, probably similar to that of a compact tractor. For $13K, it was quite a performer.

 

[MChalkley]

RocketJSquirrel - Can I just call you Rocket for short? /w3tcompact/icons/smile.gif

How long ago did you rent the EarthForce? It must've been an older one - I was told they've been using Kubota diesels in the EF-1 (as well as everything else) for several years, but that may not be correct.

I'm not sure I have a definite point yet - I was basically preparing to conduct an experiment in the open-mindedness of tractor buyers, I think. As you discovered, the EF-1 is a lot of tractor for the money. All of them are, for that matter, but I can understand why most of the members of TBN wouldn't be interested in the EF-5. It's too much money, good deal or no, because it's too much tractor for most folks. Weighing in at almost 10,000 pounds, it's quite a bit more ponderous than a 1000 pound CUT, and it ought to be. But one of the biggest things I was trying to get across is that there are EarthForce machines that are closer to the size, weight, and horsepower that the typical CUT purchaser is looking for.

I've been looking at the jobs that were mentioned as the kinds of things CUTs are used for and there are some interesting things that came out of it. Obviously, if the tractor is used primarily for general farming, it has to have a typical tractor form factor, because that's what the implements need. But that isn't, by far, the typical use for a CUT. Interestingly, one of the biggest deficiences of a mini-TLB for the typical uses mentioned in response to my question is in the ability to pull a trailer. You can certainly put a quick-attach plate on the loader that will carry any trailer the front end loader can pick up (which, for any EarthForce machine, is anything any CUT could drag), but that's not a very workable solution, in most cases. It would be pretty easy to make a trailer hitch for the backhoe quick-attach, though, and just hook the trailer up to that. (In fact, I think I just came up with another project to add to my list.) It would look a little goofy, but it should be a very workable solution. Not as convenient as putting a ball on the drawbar, but a lot more versatile. (And a whole lot more convenient than putting a backhoe on a CUT.) (Wouldn't it be nice to be able to position a trailer exactly where you want it with the backhoe boom sometimes?)

For most other uses, it's simply a matter of doing the job with a little different approach. Which is easer, driving forward with with a tiller on the back of a CUT and looking over your shoulder at the tiller all day long - or having the tiller up front where you can see it and looking behind you as you're backing up? My gut feel is that it's easier with a CUT, because you don't have to look behind you to see where you're going, which is where you spend the majority of your time looking. But, with the EarthForce machines, I've already found that you can backdrag without ever turning around because it's got such good shock-mounted mirrors on both sides - which effectively negates most of the problem in practice, but doesn't do anything for the problem of mind-set. As I said, it involves a new way of doing things. Some folks are good at being able to adapt to new techniques and new ways of seeing things, and others aren't.

All of which begs the question: Why even think about learning a new way of doing things in order to buy a mini-TLB? Here's my take on it. Say you've got 10 tasks and two choices, with respect to equipment: With Machine 1, some of the tasks will be easier to do than with Machine 2, but you can't do them all. With Machine 2, it will be a bit harder to do some of the tasks, but you can do them all. Given those 2 choices, I would almost always pick Machine 2, especially if the definition of "harder" involves adaptability, or learning new ways, on my part.

So, to use one of my favorite expressions, "relevance please?" Well, EarthForce mini-TLB's have far better loaders than any CUT. You've always got a backhoe, so you can quickly do things with it that would take a long time, or not even be possible, without it. An EarthForce machine with 4-wheel-steering is much more maneuverable than a CUT, so having the loader and backhoe always there aren't the liability they would be, unless the weight itself is the issue. But weight is usually more of an advantage than a liability.

But, some will say, a mini-TLB doesn't have a PTO. Incorrect. Mine has 3. Two on the back and one on the front. They just happen to be hydraulic. There are both advantages and disadvantages to that. I happen now to like the advantages a lot better, though I was once firmly in the mechanical PTO camp. Just like I was once in the mechanical transmission camp, but am now firmly in the HST camp.

So, I guess my point is that I believe the mini-TLB is worth looking at for a lot more CUT purchasers than it appears at first glance.

 

[fractal]

Different strokes for different folks. A Mini-TLB would have done everything I bought my Kubota for just as well if not better. My uses are:

moving dirt.
tilling soil
digging post holes
carrying stuff (sacks of feed, bales of hay, loads of wood).

I also need to manuver through some tight spaces between trees on the property and the 4 ft width of the kubota is very convenient.

To me it is a matter of economy. I have 9000 invested in a tractor with fel, box, tiller and post hole digger. Hows the market for second hand Mini-TLB's? How many aftermarket attachments are available?

I bought maximum functionality in the smallest footprint at a minimum price, something someone who uses the tool for work or on a regular basis (i.e. mowing lawns) can't afford. I guess I would have considered a Mini-TLB if I had known they existed and found one at the 'right price'.