Tractors on hills

[kenlip]

I found your chart difficult to visualize as an experienced operator. To be fair I didn't spend a lot of time reading it. One thing I did when driving across a steep hill was put the FEL bucket on the ground and if equipped swing the backhoe arm up the hill.

Thanks,

That protocol I assume refers to when following the contour of the hill. Having the backhoe swung up the hill gets the centre of gravity into a better position. My chart is looking only at up and down the hill.

 

[teg]

How does the efficiency of the braking on the smaller front wheels compare to that on the back wheels?

Actually, the front wheels bite into the ground pretty good since it shifts extra weight on those wheels. Now, I have lifted the rear wheels off the ground when I had a load of mulch, going down hill and hit the brakes. Quickly dropping the front bucket return all to normal!

 

[kenlip]

Reversing , uphill, implement attached behind low - listed as "risky". Not sure I understand that. If I am backing up a hill with my implement facing uphill (say box blade) I find it as safe as I can really get. I maybe misreading it but that is what I am visualizing.

Thanks

What you say, makes sense. I have amended accordingly - version #3. I also changed 'reversing downhill' on the same section to 'reasonably safe'. Do you agree with that?

View attachment TRACTOR HILL SAFETY.pdf

 

[MossRoad]

"LOW AND SLOW" might help when driving a tractor with a heavy FEL bucket forwards down a hill but it would be a LOT better if the person reversed "LOW AND SLOW".

Why would it be better?
If you drive forward down the hill with a full bucket and your rear tires lift, you'll lose traction.
If you drive backwards down the hill with a full bucket and your rear tires lift, you'll lose traction.

Your protocols say nothing about keeping your hand on the loader joystick to drop the load to the ground as soon as you feel yourself slipping down the hill.

Also, if you're backing down a hill with a full bucket, and your rear tires lift, and you drop the bucket, it may still act like a skid plate and you'll keep sliding on down the hill.

If you were traveling forward down the hill, and your rear tires lift, and you drop the bucket, and if it keeps sliding, you can dump the bucket and dig the front lip into the dirt to help stop you.

But if you dig the front lip into the dirt, and you're in float, your tractor may try to climb right on up over the FEL arms and throw you against the steering wheel. While you're thrown against the wheel, your right hand will probably want to push against something for bracing.... that something will be the FEL joystick, and your body weight will keep the FEL in float and you won't be able to pull it back out of float, so the tractor will keep climbing over the FEL arms until the front tires are off the ground. And, you won't be able to pull your foot of the forward pedal (if its HST), or you might not be able to hit the brakes or clutch on a gear tractor.............

You'll have a tough time writing down all the things that can go squirrelly in a heartbeat. The best way to learn is by hands-on experience, low and slow, use your brain and your body. If your body tells your brain something feels unsafe, it's because it is unsafe. Don't do it. Stop. Rethink. Ask some folks on TBN.

Get a couple tilt meters for your machine so you can start making mental notes of at what point your machine feels uncomfortable.

 

[MossRoad]

From this:
National Ag Safety Database - National Ag Safety Database

"Try to avoid backing down slopes or driving forward up a steep slope. "

That means you should always BACK UP steep slopes, and drive FORWARD DOWN steep slopes.

That's the bottom line. It's the best way to lessen the chance of rear rollovers. It pretty much applies to everything, front or rear loads.

 

[kenlip]

You can call them "protocols"...however the only way to realize what your are relating in a graphic is experiencing what is known as "the pucker factor"... no amount of spread sheets etc. can prepare you...you will learn from your reactions or lack of...

Let me try again, with a different analogy.

You are standing in your kitchen when a pot of cooking oil ignites on your kitchen stove. LOTS of 'pucker factor'. You have brilliant reaction time and grab the pot and start running to take it outside. You'll almost certainly die! Or you grab a jug of water and throw it on the pot of oil. You'll probably die, or at least suffer severe burns!
However, If you had seen a spreadsheet etc. that told you about the correct way to handle such a fire, then your brilliant reaction time will probably produce a good result.

Same 'pucker factor' for each way you react - different outcome if you have the right information.

I'd rather have seen a spreadsheet etc. showing me which fire extinguisher to use on which type of fire, than have 'pucker factor ' and my brilliant reaction time have me reach for the nearest extinguisher and end up spraying water on an oil or electrical fire.

The spreadsheet is not going to turn me into a great fire-fighter, but I would be a lot better equipped having seen it than never having seen it.

'Pucker factor' is no substitute for knowledge.

JMVHO
Ken

 

[MossRoad]

Well, now you're going to get bombarded with tales from pretty much all of us that know people that are book smart and street stupid.

There's no substitute for doing something and feeling the actions/reactions VS reading about it and hoping it never happens.

 

[MossRoad]

I read extensively about saving drowning people. Watched movies, too. But until I got into the water with a 250 pound gorilla-man that was bent on showing me how a real drowning person behaves, I had no clue.

When they teach you to fly, they make you put the plane into situations that you have to recover from. You have to practice the failures to know how to deal with them.

When my mom and dad tought me to drive, they took me to a snow covered parking lot and did donuts and lose control of the car to see how it feels.

When I taught my girls to drive, one of the first things I did was take them to a snow covered parking lot and made them lose control of the car over and over again until they felt comfortable with how it feels, and what to do to recover.

There is NO substitute for practical hands-on experience. You can read about it all you want. Yes, its good to have that knowledge in the back of your head. And its good to know not to put yourself into those situations in the first place. If that's what you're trying to accomplish, good for you.

However, knowing what you shouldn't have done a couple seconds ago, and having the skills to recover from it are priceless.

 

[kenlip]

From this:
National Ag Safety Database - National Ag Safety Database

"Try to avoid backing down slopes or driving forward up a steep slope. "

That means you should always BACK UP steep slopes, and drive FORWARD DOWN steep slopes.

That's the bottom line. It's the best way to lessen the chance of rear rollovers. It pretty much applies to everything, front or rear loads.

Thanks, MossRoad

Mike, in The Danger of Tractors on Hills - YouTube says the opposite. He says (and shows) that, with the load at the front, one should go FORWARD UP and REVERSE DOWN.

I saw that article a few days ago. It refers often to a 'steep slope'. I wonder what they consider to be 'steep'


Ken

 

[kenlip]

Why would it be better?
Ask some folks on TBN. /QUOTE]

That's exactly what I am doing . Hence my posting on this subject.