PILOON
Super Star Member
Another aspect is that I believe most of those major RR's are self insured and prefer to spend their $$'s on lawyers when the time comes, hence spreads the blame.
Train - hazardous cargo "accident"
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buickanddeere
Super Member
Should have been enough hand brakes set to hold the train if the air brakes failed.
vvanders
Platinum Member
Sounds much like the situation with the risk involved in working on cell towers. They AT&T, Verizon, etc sub-contract all the work so that when something goes wrong they're not at fault: Tower climbers dying at 1 times the rate of construction workers
We had one of these derail a while back here in WA and took out the water supply for the local town. I see them running up and down the I-5 corridor and just waiting for something bad to happen. The tracks are easy to access and the impact of a derailment is pretty well documented.
crazyal
Super Member
A large part of the problem really lies at the feet of the Canadian government. The company asked for and was permitted to operate trains with just one engineer. Had there been two the train wouldn't of needed to stop because the engineer had reached his allotted time. There was no standard for how many brakes that needed to be set. The engineer said he set 7 brakes. Government testing said around 30 brakes should have been set. The problem is that no guideline was published for companies to follow. You can't realistically expect an engineer to be able to do the physics to understand how much energy there was with that much weight, how much braking force each truck provided, or how much force was needed to get the train moving. There was also no regulation as to where to park a train. The siding that's equipped with a derailer to prevent runaways was used for storage of other rail cars so the train was left on the main track (the government permitted this practice).
Even when violations were found Transport Canada never followed up on them to ensure they were fixed or unsafe practices were changed. A large company like Canadian Pacific has the resources and finances to come up safe practices while a small company like MM&A counts on the government to set standards for them to follow. I'm not saying MM&A is a great company or that they didn't make mistakes. It's just that the balance seamed to be too far to nobody was doing much of anything for safe operation of trains.
Even when violations were found Transport Canada never followed up on them to ensure they were fixed or unsafe practices were changed. A large company like Canadian Pacific has the resources and finances to come up safe practices while a small company like MM&A counts on the government to set standards for them to follow. I'm not saying MM&A is a great company or that they didn't make mistakes. It's just that the balance seamed to be too far to nobody was doing much of anything for safe operation of trains.
Most Canadians would consider themselves over-governed.
Corporations.... whole different game. I can't drive a vehicle down the road w/o adequate insurance. Even w/o Loss of Life occurring, I highly doubt that MM&A was adequately capitalized to deal with even one cleanup of a waterway major oil spill. "Self-insured" doesn't work with fly-by-night companies, they just fold up and leave the bills to the taxpayers - about as hard to predict as the sun coming up tomorrow.....
As an individual, it's pretty easy to get beaten over the head (or bankrupted) by govt regs. Somebody in another thread referred to Govts liking to "Regulate everything, and Enforce nothing" - unfortunately very applicable in the context of Corporations, and this thread.
"Regulations" can create the perception that Govt is doing something, but it's the Enforcement that matters much more.
Rgds, D.
Corporations.... whole different game. I can't drive a vehicle down the road w/o adequate insurance. Even w/o Loss of Life occurring, I highly doubt that MM&A was adequately capitalized to deal with even one cleanup of a waterway major oil spill. "Self-insured" doesn't work with fly-by-night companies, they just fold up and leave the bills to the taxpayers - about as hard to predict as the sun coming up tomorrow.....
As an individual, it's pretty easy to get beaten over the head (or bankrupted) by govt regs. Somebody in another thread referred to Govts liking to "Regulate everything, and Enforce nothing" - unfortunately very applicable in the context of Corporations, and this thread.
"Regulations" can create the perception that Govt is doing something, but it's the Enforcement that matters much more.
Rgds, D.
That train was probably tied down the same way every time it was parked there with 7 or 8 handbrakes applied it wasnt the first time.
Sadly the lead locomotive was known to have defects long before it arrived there the train was over tonnage and no one wanted to delay the train but instead used things like duct tape to keep things moving then the fire occurred and things went down hill from there.To apply 30 handbrakes would take at least an hour and how you could do a "push pull" test would be difficult on a one man crew and he would have been working over his 12 hours.
Also if the train didnt move and the relieving crew man came on duty he would have to release all those brakes which would cause a serious delay that would have not been tolerated by management as its all about the wheels turning with minimal delays.
If that perfect storm had not occurred that same train might be parked there right now with 7 handbrakes applied no issues, it was real easy for the MMA to file for bankruptcy blame everyone but themselves and run away.
That shortline operation was a disaster waiting to happen as it was all about $$$$$$$$$ those employees were pawns.
Sadly the lead locomotive was known to have defects long before it arrived there the train was over tonnage and no one wanted to delay the train but instead used things like duct tape to keep things moving then the fire occurred and things went down hill from there.To apply 30 handbrakes would take at least an hour and how you could do a "push pull" test would be difficult on a one man crew and he would have been working over his 12 hours.
Also if the train didnt move and the relieving crew man came on duty he would have to release all those brakes which would cause a serious delay that would have not been tolerated by management as its all about the wheels turning with minimal delays.
If that perfect storm had not occurred that same train might be parked there right now with 7 handbrakes applied no issues, it was real easy for the MMA to file for bankruptcy blame everyone but themselves and run away.
That shortline operation was a disaster waiting to happen as it was all about $$$$$$$$$ those employees were pawns.
Not hard to argue that we are worse than a 3rd World country.
In the 3rd World, if all your passengers can pay is 50cents for a trip, then you expect corners to be cut.
Here, mega-corporations at both ends of that line make big money off that crude. They have the money, but prefer that we tolerate these risks, so that they can add very slightly to their profit.
I live in a province where the minimum wage just went up. A couple of Tim Hortons stores decided to cut benefits to employees (sounds like a Canuck joke, but I'm not making this up......) and the province immediately decided to hire another 80 or so inspectors because of this.....
We are supposed to believe that the Canadian govt wasn't complicit in what was going on with these crude shipments ?
Rgds, D.
Use of handbrakes mandated on Canadian railways following fatal Field, B.C. derailment | Globalnews.ca
Maybe we can now get some 20'th century regs enforced......
Rgds, D
Maybe we can now get some 20'th century regs enforced......
Rgds, D
No pipeline East....... careful what you wish for.....
Repsol energy looks to Alberta to replace Mexican, Venezuelan oil | The Star
Rgds, D.
Repsol energy looks to Alberta to replace Mexican, Venezuelan oil | The Star
Rgds, D.
PILOON
Super Star Member
Back when I owned an aviation facility one client had the contract to monitor the pipelines.
The method was to weekly overfly the line and observe visually.
Simple, dead forestry was the telltale sign of a leakage and by doing so on a weekly basis the leaked volume was minimized.
He used an older twin engine aircraft for safety reasons and reliability.
The operation was no riskier than crop dusting.
For sure there is much less danger than derailed rail cars could (and have) cause, both to environment and human life.
(think Megantic and other major derailments)
The method was to weekly overfly the line and observe visually.
Simple, dead forestry was the telltale sign of a leakage and by doing so on a weekly basis the leaked volume was minimized.
He used an older twin engine aircraft for safety reasons and reliability.
The operation was no riskier than crop dusting.
For sure there is much less danger than derailed rail cars could (and have) cause, both to environment and human life.
(think Megantic and other major derailments)