Trespassing signs, etiquette, good & bad neighbors

[widefat]

My wife was lost the other day in the suburbs. She turned around in someone's drive, then called me. A guy came out of the house screaming at her for turning around in his drive. My thought is, what a poor excuse of a human being.

Courts have already decided, unless you have a closed gate and signs, you have no expectation of privacy for people coming up your drive and knocking on your door.

The angry gent must have been related to these folks:
UPDATED: Fauquier County makes TV news after residents fire weapons toward lost motorists | News | fauquier.com

 

[LD1]

I need to look into those things that puncture your tires if you try and back up!

I think that could get you into legal trouble

 

[snymat68]

I think that could get you into legal trouble

Motion activated sprinklers? :laughing:

 

[deserteagle71]

Courts have already decided, unless you have a closed gate and signs, you have no expectation of privacy for people coming up your drive and knocking on your door.

^ This is the rule in Nevada also. That's why my gate is closed all the time. But it is not locked - any all of my neighbors know they can come and go as they please. Same for the UPS driver, fire department, deputies, etc. Just having the gate closed keeps out most of the ones I don't want in here anyway.

Not mine, but I like this sign:

 

[Diggin It]

Skipping three pages ..... If I don't see the resident and know thy see me, or if they're not expecting me, I don't enter a property gate, fence, sign or none.

My property is gated, fenced and hedged so people can't just wander on.

 

[turnkey4099]

If he had a legitimate reason to come and talk to you why shouldn't he come on to your property. He wasn't trespassing, he wanted to see you on business. Even if it was to introduce himself and say "hi, I'm your new neighbour"

That is the way I see it also. Of course the ones who have a legitimate reason are far outnumbered by the ones that don't.

 

[dmccarty]

...

How well known is the purple stripe designation? First I've ever heard of it. If I saw a sign that was nothing but purple stripes I wouldn't have had a clue what it meant.

I doubt it was known since the law was passed a few years ago. But I keep the land posted to limit liability so them knowing the law puts the onus on them.

We had two trespassers drive their ATV right past a posted sign. No way they could miss it unless they were blind. Many people are just clueless and/or just ignore the signs.

Later,
Dan

 

[Fuddy1952]

My wife was lost the other day in the suburbs. She turned around in someone's drive, then called me. A guy came out of the house screaming at her for turning around in his drive. My thought is, what a poor excuse of a human being.

Courts have already decided, unless you have a closed gate and signs, you have no expectation of privacy for people coming up your drive and knocking on your door.

What an idiot! Who would scream at a lady turning around in driveway but an idiot.

 

[greenmojo]

Unless you have a physical barrier - A locked gate - you can expect uninvited visitors. That is life in the country. The few times I left the gate open someone unwelcome visitor always managed to dive up, and yes one was the tax assessor, one very religious person , someone looking for a dog, one guy that had some asphalt left over from a job etc etc. . .

I think your signs on your new automatic gate will help a lot. I had no unwelcome guest when my gate was closed.

Get a good gate opener or you will leave it open if it breaks and your problem will resurface quickly.
High Quality Automatic Solar Gate Openers & Accessories

If someone crosses you physical barrier, for your safety, be armed. For some reason people think that people in rural areas are trusting and gullible.

Edit, lou brought up a good point on delivery people, leave your phone number on your gate or a box for packages. We never had a problem with theft of packages from the gate, but I kept track of them with the tracking number and knew the time the UPS/Fedex delivered and the packages would seldom be left out for more than an hour. It was very quiet and I could hear the truck miles away.

I agree, the barrier is probably the only thing that works -- the plan is to have a code for the delivery drivers. Yes, we left the gate open and experienced the same, tax assessor measuring all of our buildings, driving around all of our roads taking pictures. Just a privacy killer in general.

Great link! I will read up on them, my other neighbors went with the Mighty Mule openers, but I have no experience with them at all.

 

[BigBlue1]

I guess different places have different levels of 'visitor' frequency. Personally in my almost 50 years I have rarely ever had someone come to the door (living in rural areas or in a city) here in Minnesota that was truly an unwanted visitor. Sometimes neighbors. Maybe once a year or less some type of salesperson or jehova witness type thing. No big deal. Lived on my current rural property for over three years and have had zero people come up that weren't invited, neighbors, or deliveries/service folks. If you're having lots of unwanted people coming by and they are causing issues or being irritating in the time of their arrival then maybe I could see the point of gates or being upset by people passing signs, but really doesn't seem like a problem. If you have a security issue I suppose a gate is a way of dealing with it but sure seems like a pain. Seems like an outlook issue to me...

Rob

 

[greenmojo]

If you wish to be contacted BY PHONE before potential trespassers actually trespass, perhaps you should add a sign that says call ###-###-#### before passing this sign/gate/barrier. Have you considered a call box? Is there a long distance RING-type doorbell?

That's a great suggestion. Last night before I posted this, I did think about putting the home number on a sign down there. A call box would be great, I'll have to research what options are out there for that. Would be much better, and probably stop the problem! Thank you.

 

[greenmojo]

So I guess someone who is lost or had an accident and is seeking help would be banned from that property as well even though they may have thought they had a legitimate reason.

Around my area neighbors help each other as well as strangers seeking help.


I can see where this thread is going to run for several pages...............

It doesn't have to be a negative or combative thread. Some people don't mind having people drop in on them, others enjoy quiet and privacy.

 

[greenmojo]

OP,

You should handle it the same way Robert Duvall and Michael Caine handle it in the movie Second Hand Lions. Complete with the signs you drive by, and sitting on your front porch with a shotgun. Make sure you shoot at anyone that gets out of their car.

Ha! That was a good movie!

 

[greenmojo]

We have had the same trespass issues for years. Signs and a gate are not obvious clues to the clue less, the morons, and those who think that laws, regulations, or wishes of others does not apply to them.

Even a closed gate has not prevented people climbing over or walking around the gate.

Regarding an acceptable time to visit. How is someone supposed to know what time is acceptable to ME? Our latest trespass issue is a dog walker and a jogger running up our private road at various times in the morning setting off alarms when I am trying to sleep. I guess they would not mind if I go ring their door bell whenever I feel like it?

What works MOST of the time is to keep the gate shut but that is a PITA since we do not have an automatic gate operator. Flip side is we don't have to deal with this often. Just every once in awhile some trespass issue pops up.

When the problem has been neighbors a chat has solved the problem. Most of the problem people are not neighbors.

Later,
Dan

During winter a few times we had people drive up and knock on the door, one was asking if we knew another neighbor and where they lived... I asked if they opened the gate to come up, and they said yes--he said he thought it was just a gate to keep cattle and horses in, and didn't think it was for people. Of course, he must have thought the no trespassing signs were for animals too. ;-)

 

[greenmojo]

You'll get way fewer people coming up to the house unexpectedly with the gate. But you'll also need to give a gate code to the propane company and the fire dept. Maybe the power company too. You'll need a box for deliveries. A way to open the gate from the house is handy, as is a speaker/mic box at the gate so people can let you know they're there (or you can post a cell # if you have reception and keep your phone with you).

Our place came with a gate and comm system and after having it I would not be without it. We keep it closed most of the time. When we've left it open we've gotten all kinds of people. The previous owner put the gate in after some yahoos drove past his house to "go wheelin" and he had to run them off with a shotgun.

My neighbors are pretty good about calling to let us know they're coming (and I do the same) but if they don't, I don't get to wound up about it.

Awesome insight. Thank you! It looks like this is the way to go.

 

[greenmojo]

My beef is with snowmobilers who ignore my no trespassing signs. And I live on a dead end road.

I posted my property to keep mushroomers and hunters off but signs are ignored. Mushroomers are the worst. Two signs were damaged by these jerks. During mushroom season, which is rapidly approaching, I will be doing a lot of load development for a couple of new rifles and some plinking as well. I have a good backstop even though I live in an isolated area. The locals know I shoot competitivedly and shoot a lot...the "outsiders" will not know if some weirdo is blasting randomly. LOL

As to the OP, I would want my new neighbors to intorduce themsleves but not early in the morning. I have a gate I can lock and normally just clip it shut during deer and mushroom season. But if you want nobody to enter, keeping a gate locked is a PITA and it gets old quickly. If your problem is with locals, a talk is all that is usually needed. If that does not work, charge them with trespassing and word spreads very quickly. If you are a "good guy", the others will accept it; but if you are a jerk, be prepared for more problems.

I had a local who I locked in when she trespassed to mushroom. She was a member of one of the major families in the area. When she came to my door to get the gate unlocked she said, "Don't you know who I am?" I said, "I really do not care..you are a trespasser. I can have you charged for not only trespassing but theft." Everyone had a big laugh about it when the story got out, and it stopped the locals from trespassing.

Good luck with your issues. No one right answer as it depends on you (how you are perceived and your personal quirks), your area, and the kind of trespassers (locals or outsiders) you are dealihg with.

BTW, you cannot draw a weapon or brandish even on your own property if things get ugly. If they do, you want to be the first to call law enforcement or the DNR. They will normally side with the property owner unless you do somethign really stupid.

Thanks Shooter... that's exactly it. We have many people that come up here regularly including daily deliveries and they are all welcome. I am just trying to stop the random strangers and people who think they have a good enough reason.

And you are right about firearms... that old cowboy idea of stepping out of the truck holding a handgun or rifle doesn't fly... intimidation with a firearm is a real deal, times have changed. Better to just call the authorities.

 

[greenmojo]

We have two trained German Shepherds. We have no issues with uninvited guests.

Yup... that would keep me out.

 

[greenmojo]

Seriously though when I bought additional adjoining property there were one neighbor's cows on it, another neighbor's bull on it, and kids on ATVs on it!
I didn't buy a public park...my insurance agent said they would cancel my policy (after being with them 40 years).
Everything had to go. The hassle and liability just wasn't worth it.
Right now I'm having a horse barn built. Gates have to stay open...trucks with supplies, workers, etc.
Recently just at dusk I hear an ATV slowly approaching. It was the cow guy checking things out. Then he spots me...he's on my place. I wave...he gives me the deer in headlights look then goes back home.
He's pixxed at me. I don't care as long as he does no damage.
If he was normal he would drive up my driveway, shake hands, ask to see what I was doing...that would be fine with me.
Everyone is welcome coming up driveway, ringing doorbell. I'll offer them a soda, sit and chat. Sneaking around I don't like.

Quads and snowmobiles... Oh I dislike them. A lot.

2 years ago, we had a guy come in on his quad through the back gates of the property and tried to race out around the house, when he got spotted, he realized it might be better to stop and apologize. He then tried to sell us pot, telling us he was the local pothead on the mountain. What a moron he was.

 

[CMV]

Very interesting reading here other people's thoughts. On that situation I'd view as:

(1) I'm the new neighbor. I wouldn't think twice about the sign and wouldn't consider knocking on the front door to introduce myself as "trespass". Riding my ATV around the place, just hanging out there for no reason, ya, but just stopping by to introduce myself as a new neighbor, it wouldn't even occur to me "that no trespass means you dummy".

(2) I'm the property owner. I wouldn't mind that type visit (as long as just an introduction and not accompanied by an ask - can I borrow____, will you help____, can I use_____, would you like to buy_____?).

My property is posted. When I'm there, neighboring property owners (none of our land is developed - all recreational/hunting land or small hay fields) stop by often. We talk about what trash has been dumped, vehicles we don't recognize on our private road recently, etc. Every visit like that is an interruption - I'm out there for a reason, I don't just sit there and watch the birds fly by - but I don't mind at all. I like that they're friendly and helping keep an eye on the place when I'm not around.

None have even asked to shoot there without first offering some use of their land "Hey, if you want to ride your ATV over on my land you're welcome to. Would you mind if I stopped by before hunting season & sighted in my rifle here?" Something along those lines....

The only ones that really irritate me are the ones who aren't neighbors. Just some yahoo that follows the sound of gunfire, interrupts me, and asks if he can use my range. I hate that & happens all the time. But even at that, I wouldn't expect the no trespassing signs they just walked/drove/rode past to discourage them - would be nice if they did, but so many people just think they have as much right to use your property as you do......act like you're the jerk for saying no.

But I kind of view the signs as saying "the gate is locked, no one is here, stay off this property" for when I'm not around. Gate is open, I expect they will be 100% ignored.

 

[Oldoak]

Yes, obviously. That's the explicit meaning of the sign. No trespassing means no entering the property without prior permission and the law (where I live at least) makes no exception because you have a really good reason.

So you would rather see a person in need of medical assistance die rather than have them trespass on posted land while seeking help?

Where I live at least, I am fortunate and happy and to say land owners are more compassionate even though we value our own privacy.